ARCHEOLOGISTS VS THers, THE BATTLE RAGES ON... MORE WHINING

Badger Bart

Sr. Member
Mar 24, 2005
301
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THESE FOLKS ARE YOUR FIERCEST COMPETITORS, THEY WILL SAY AND DO ANYTHING TO KILL YOUR HOBBY...

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/nation/14429270.htm

Posted on Wed, Apr. 26, 2006

Archeologists Decry History Buffs’ Digs
By BRIGID SCHULTE
The Washington Post
The buzz began in the chow line. “Did you hear?” asked one relic hunter.

“Yeah. A Mississippi plate,” said another. “Absolutely perfect.”

The proud new owner of the Confederate belt plate embossed with an eagle held out his treasure on his dirt-caked palm.

A man with a long beard and flannel shirt whistled low. “That’s $12,000 right there.”

It was the prize find of a three-day relic hunt called Diggin’ in Virginia, one of a new breed of organized digs in the history-rich state. More than 200 relic hunters hauled metal detectors up and down the hills of a Culpeper County farm one weekend this spring. They’d paid a couple of hundred bucks each.

“You pull a Minie ball out of the ground, and the first thing that strikes you: The last hands that touched this were the hands of a Civil War soldier,” dig participant Steve Silvia said of a Civil War-era bullet. “It’s about as close as you can get to stepping back in time.”

But to alarmed archaeologists, these “safari” digs — though legal — represent the wholesale destruction of the past. Stripping sites of their artifacts also strips the ability to learn what stories they could tell.

“These digs are like reading a book, ripping the pages out as you read and setting them on fire,” said Kathleen Kilpatrick, director of the state’s Department of Historic Resources. “It’s an outrage.”

A Mississippi belt plate alone will tell you nothing, Kilpatrick said. A belt plate whose position is documented in context could help reconstruct the flow of a historic fight, give insight into military strategy or, at a campsite, illuminate soldiers’ living conditions.

Members of the Council of Virginia Archaeologists are protesting to state legislators and other officials and enlisting the aid of local historic preservation groups. They’ve contacted landowners to get them to stop the digs.

Last year in the state’s General Assembly, lawmakers considered a measure that would have required relic hunters to get written permission from landowners before digging, and to catalogue and report what they found. The bill also would have established that relics belonged to the state, not any individual.

It was resoundingly crushed in committee.

Yes, relic hunters concede, there are bad guys — the ones who use night-vision goggles and sneak into protected sites to dig, or the ones who sell what they find on eBay.

But others have such a passion for the past, particularly the Civil War, that they write books on what they find. Some take photographs or use the Global Positioning System to pinpoint what they dug up. Others have donated hundreds of hours to help archaeologists — including using metal detectors to find the site of a Civil War battle near Chantilly, Va., that archaeologists had missed.

Although archaeologists fighting the digs say they understand the thrill of finding an artifact, they point to the excavation of the site of 1876’s Battle of Little Bighorn, Custer’s Last Stand, in Montana. For more than a century, historians held to the U.S. military’s version of events: that Custer rushed in for glory and was crushed by Sioux and Cheyenne warriors. They discounted the Native Americans’ very different memory.

National Park Service archaeologist Doug Scott, who enlisted the help of relic hunters, spent years painstakingly mapping where each bullet was found. Using microscopic analysis of firing-pin marks, he traced each bullet to a particular gun and tracked its movement on the battlefield. He discovered the Native Americans were right. Custer had followed military procedure. He was outmanned, outgunned and outfought that day.

“Evidence doesn’t lie,” Scott said. “History may be accurate. But archaeology is precise.”

When a relic hunter dug up 800 cartridges on private property just off the battlefield for souvenirs, Scott was beside himself. “We’re missing the part of the battle that tells us how the warriors and the soldiers all got there.”

Relic hunters say many places they dig have been plowed for 140 years and artifacts have been scattered. “There is no context,” said Diggin’ in Virginia organizer John Kendrick — a point some archaeologists dispute.

At Brandy Rock Farm in Culpeper County, thousands of artifacts were mined on the Diggin’ in Virginia hunt, including the prized Mississippi plate.

One day in the summer of 1863, a Confederate soldier from Mississippi left behind his prized belt plate, worn only by elite members of the state militia.

We will never know why.
 

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Badger Bart

Sr. Member
Mar 24, 2005
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I thought this was quite telling...

"Others have donated hundreds of hours to help archaeologists — including using metal detectors to find the site of a Civil War battle near Chantilly, Va., that archaeologists had missed."

Here's the thanks we got for all the help given them...

"Members of the Council of Virginia Archaeologists are protesting to state legislators and other officials and enlisting the aid of local historic preservation groups. They've contacted landowners to get them to stop the digs."

"Last year in the state's General Assembly, lawmakers considered a measure that would have required relic hunters to get written permission from landowners before digging, and to catalogue and report what they found. The bill also would have established that relics belonged to the state, not any individual."

Ummm, you're welcome folks, anytime, no really, your knife in my back doesn't bother me at all... honest, think nothing of it.

Here's another telling quote...

"National Park Service archaeologist Doug Scott, who enlisted the help of relic hunters, spent years painstakingly mapping where each bullet was found. Using microscopic analysis of firing-pin marks, he traced each bullet to a particular gun and tracked its movement on the battlefield. He discovered the Native Americans were right. Custer had followed military procedure. He was outmanned, outgunned and outfought that day."

It was volunteer THer's who donated time and effort, hundreds of hours, to pinpoint every one of the artifacts found there. The following statement appears to me that the archy's have taken all the 'glory'...

"Although archaeologists fighting the digs say they understand the thrill of finding an artifact, they point to the excavation of the site of 1876 Battle of Little Bighorn, Custer's Last Stand, in Montana. For more than a century, historians held to the U.S. military's version of events: that Custer rushed in for glory and was crushed by Sioux and Cheyenne warriors. They discounted the Native American's very different memory."
 

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Badger Bart

Sr. Member
Mar 24, 2005
301
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Why thank you cousin Mich.

Here's another from the same article... "A Mississippi belt plate alone will tell you nothing, Kilpatrick said. A belt plate whose position is documented in context could help reconstruct the flow of a historic fight, give insight into military strategy or, at a campsite, illuminate soldiers living conditions."

Finding the belt plate does tell a THer something, it tells him the guy fell down on his way out of the latrine because he was too drunk to pull his pants back up. After flailing around on the ground for two minutes, he passed out from exhaustion, where his buddies found him an hour later and dragged him back to his tent. That's how he lost it, during the drag. This ''historic fight'' was not an uncommon event on this or any other Civil War battlefield. Could the archy's have done that? Not in a million years.

The THer found it in the dirt. Had an archy found it, if they even could have found it, it would have been found in 'context', making the find all that much more significant. I don't know about you, but I have never found anything in context, my finds have always been in dirt. Say, maybe if Ther's changed all the ordinary words into fancy ones, we could be archy's too! Let's try it! I say we come up with all new names for everything, if we can't dazzle them with brilliance, let's baffle them with BS!

Another one... This article is LOADED with bamboozle...

" The bill also would have established that relics belonged to the state, not any individual."
Who is the state they are referring to? In this case, they are referring to themselves and no one else. It is not Gov't. of, by, and for the people, it is gov't. vs the people. Ther's could replace archy's as the ruling elite controlling all artifacts found in the dirt. I believe that with all my heart, and it would be so very easy to do. Using the system already in place. We would pool our money and lobby legislators the way they do. In this case 'lobby' means bid, buy, bribe, coerce, lubricate, tamper, approach, sweeten, instigate, grease the palm and suborn the politicians, you know, the ways the pro's do it. Cmon, let's get our act together!
 

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Monolith

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While finding lost relics is great, you DO destroy history by digging it up. It's pretty ignorant to think otherwise. Archaeologists painstakingly record and catalog sites when excavating them, TH'ers dont.
 

Sandman

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Aug 6, 2005
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Excal 1000, Excal II, Sovereign GT, CZ-20, Tiger Shark, Tejon, GTI 1500, Surfmaster Pulse, CZ6a, DFX, AT PRO, Fisher 1235, Surf PI Pro, 1280-X, many more because I enjoy learning them. New Garrett Ca
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Relic hunting is fun for many, archaeologists and detectorist alike. But it is only the archy that wants grand money to keep things buried forever till they get more grand money to organize a dig.

We need to write our congressmen and remind them that we voted for them. Our hobby supplies money to locals where we like to hunt. Let the chamber of commerce in your area know how you spend your money in their area doing your hobby. Money talks.............
 

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Badger Bart

Sr. Member
Mar 24, 2005
301
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Black Jack Battlefield,

I disagree that history is destroyed Mono. Nothing is desroyed, history doesn't change. About the best that can be said is that some artifacts aren't recorded to the same degree as in an archeological dig. But so what? Many THer's record where and when they find many or all of their items. Below is a press release from today that shows one example. Please note the highlighted statements.

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2006/may/06/black_jack_search_ends_without_any_findings/?city_local

Black Jack search ends without any findings
J-W Staff Reports

Saturday, May 6, 2006

The search for artifacts at Black Jack Battlefield near Baldwin came to an end Friday without any significant findings.

?We?ve searched about all the ground we can,? said University of Nebraska battlefield archaeologist Douglas Scott.

Scott and others working with him had hoped to find items ? mainly bullets ? left from the 1856 battle between John Brown-led abolitionists and pro-slavery forces. The location of bullets or other artifacts would help tell the story of the ebb and flow of the battle and what type of weapons had been used, he said.

Scott, however, was contacted by Raymond Schott, of Lawrence, who said he was with a Topeka treasure hunters club that had searched the battlefield in 1979 or 1980 when about 40 bullets were found. Schott told the Journal-World he hadn?t personally found any bullets, and he didn?t know what other members had done with the ones they had found.

Based on information he received from Schott and from information on bullets taken from the battlefield and housed at the Old Castle Museum in Baldwin, a report could still be generated about the battlefield, Scott said.
 

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