Permission without them thinking its theirs

[montypyfly]

Permission without them thinking it's theirs

I have only been doing this for about five months, but every time I ask permission from homeowners in this old neighborhood, I get a lot of "Sure"s, but they all seem to think everything I dig up is theirs.

I tried mentioning to a few before I started that what I find will be mine, and then the deny my detecting.

Then I tried a few saying I would split anything of value over $100 (Knowing that was pretty safe bet :-) )

One out of three agreed to that, but then he said he wanted the ring I found.

How do you get these people to let you detect, but not expect you to hand over what you find?

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

Larry, you say:

"One way to do it is to make up an agreement, signed by both parties....."

May I suggest to you, that this is the FASTEST way to get a "no", in your request to search someone's lawn or property? I mean, think of it: what would YOU do if a total stranger shows up at your door, handing you a contract to sign? All that's going to do is conjure up some legal image, or some sort of implied conclusion that you're about to find treasure, etc....

The only time contracts should be used, to get permission, or to discuss split arrangements, is if the person themselves wants or shows you/us one.

You guys, just say "sure, you're welcome to whatever I find", and trust me: very few ever actually end up wanting or taking any. Most often, they might watch you for a few minutes. Just be sure to isolate a few zinc or pulltab signals at first (pass better sounding ones), and guaranteed: they'll grow bored and return to their porch, or go back inside. And when it's done, you just thank them, tell them you got a few more grubby pennies, and odds are, even if you're holding them out for them to look at, few will do more than say "take it". Once in a GREAT while, have I ever had anyone start looking at each date, or even begginning to take anything. On those rare occasions, if you really really got something good (you recognize a key date coin, or a saloon token, etc....) you just show them everything else, and tell them "is it ok if I add just this one to my collection, as it's a date I'm missing"?

And to be honest with, even if .... on the rare occasion ..... you do end up giving away a keeper, to someone who actually goes forward with a 50/50 rule, it will be well worth it in the end. I have given away seateds and a reale, when I wasnt' even asked to, because I perceived it would open the door to future hunts. I know a guy who gave away a $5 gold piece to a land owner, that he could have slipped in his pocket and not breathed a word. In all those cases, the plusses far outweighed the minuses. I mean, would you rather hunt boring sandboxes, or a virgin stage stop?

I never hesitate to tell an owner "your welcome to anything I find", yet I tend to end up with 99% of everything I find, one way or another. It just rarely happens that you have that person actually proceed with it, or actually expect 100%. It just doesn't happen, despite the way it may sound, when they let you on their property, if you act cool and friendly about it.

 

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[Treasure_Hunter]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

Tom is correct, when I mention a signed agreement 3 years ago they backed off, insurance issues.......99% of them will not give you a problem, especially if the first 10-20 mins your only finding trash.....

I use to hunt artifacts in Missouri on private land. Most homeowners did not care at all, because I approched them directly, didn't try to sneak on, introduced myself, spent 5-20 mins talking to them, treated them with respect till they were comfortable with me .

Some of the farmers bordering rivers and streams said no because they were hunters also, others said yes, but I had to show them my finds and they had first choice of any 1 find, others would hunt with me, some wanted to pool all our finds then flip a coin to see who got first pick, then alternate, others said keep what you find, other then I get a choice of 1 item.....Most just said sure go ahead......

In the long run it always worked out to my benifit, I had great sites to hunt, made new friends, got free corn, and veggies from their garden and so what if I had to give up a artifact every once in a while........It was still their land....

 

[Goes4ever]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

I like to ask a homeowner before I start if they or anyone in their family lost anything of value, like a gold ring etc....and promise them if I find it I will return it. But I tell them I am mainly in search of old coins, tokens, buttons and interesting relics. A lot of homeowners don't even come out after after they give me permission, they just go back inside and I never see them again. Now if their yard is simply amazing and givin up a lot of goodies. I will talk to them before I leave and ask if it is ok for a return visit. But normally I will hunt a place one time for 3-5 hours and I am down. I have gave away a ton of wheats, clad, toy cars etc to kids because they are HAPPY to get them. But most adults I come across could care less about a couple indians or a few mercury dimes.

on two occasions I had a home owner tell me they would PAY ME fair book value for any old coins I find as they would like to buy them for their grandkids. And because they were so kind to offer to pay me for my time I offered to give them some of my old coin finds for free because they were kind enough to let me hunt their property. Most people in my area are happy kind people and it is very rare to run into a greedy homeowner who would actually want to take my finds, they see me out there for hours digging and they say I earned my finds and wouldn't even think of taking them from me.

I have had a couple people follow me or watch me over my shoulder, on those occasions, I normally just pack up and leave. I do not like to have people follow me around, it totally ruins my hunt, I can't concentrate. I just thank them and head out.

 

[Bum Luck]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

EVERYTHING you find on someone else's property is theirs.

Not only that, for the sanctimonious on here, EVERYTHING that we find is someone else's property; it's just lost. So, to the above posters, you have a moral obligation to return that property to them.

 

[BuckleBoy]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

I will not sell my self esteem and integrity for some stupid piece of jewelry or an old coin regardless of its value.
I would sell my detectors first.
But I know there are some here that feel differently. (the pirates creed)
My metal detecting friends are like me and would not knowingly steal, cheat, or keep something that belonged to someone else.
If they did they would not be my friend for very long.

Today's trend is to blur the line between right and wrong.
You see it happening everywhere.
But there are still a lot of us that still know the difference.

Absolutely right.

 

[Produce Guy]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

I had a few problems over the years and the one thing I've learned is to take along some extra coins,the ones you have doubles or triple of,and then when they ask what you find you can give them one of those coins instead of the coin you found.

 

[dogpound]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

EVERYTHING you find on someone else's property is theirs.

Not only that, for the sanctimonious on here, EVERYTHING that we find is someone else's property; it's just lost. So, to the above posters, you have a moral obligation to return that property to them.

i agree....so here's a handful of pulltabs

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

Bum Luck, you say:

"EVERYTHING you find on someone else's property is theirs. ...... Not only that, for the sanctimonious on here, EVERYTHING that we find is someone else's property; it's just lost. So, to the above posters, you have a moral obligation to return that property to them. "

Well, technically, the same is true of public property, no matter how innocuous, and no matter how much "allowed" it is, wherever you are at.

For example, pick ...... in your mind ...... a public place near you, where there is absolutely no problem detecting. Ie.: a sandbox at the park, or a beach near you, or wherever you happen to detect, and think the items "belong to you" once you find them. Ok, got that place in your mind? Now I callenge you to do the following: next time you find a nice gold ring or something real nice: Walk into city hall (or whatever entity owns the place you're legally detecting at), walk up to the desk clerk, and ask them "Hi. I found this on your property. Can I have it?" And see what they say.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

Bum Luck, you say:

"EVERYTHING you find on someone else's property is theirs. ...... Not only that, for the sanctimonious on here, EVERYTHING that we find is someone else's property; it's just lost. So, to the above posters, you have a moral obligation to return that property to them. "

Well, technically, the same is true of public property, no matter how innocuous, and no matter how much "allowed" it is, wherever you are at.

For example, pick ...... in your mind ...... a public place near you, where there is absolutely no problem detecting. Ie.: a sandbox at the park, or a beach near you, or wherever you happen to detect, and think the items "belong to you" once you find them. Ok, got that place in your mind? Now I callenge you to do the following: next time you find a nice gold ring or something real nice: Walk into city hall (or whatever entity owns the place you're legally detecting at), walk up to the desk clerk, and ask them "Hi. I found this on your property. Can I have it?" And see what they say.

LOL, I know how that's going to turn out......... What I find on public property, if the owner can identify it I will return it to them, if not it goes home with me..........

 

[Jimmy(PA)]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

I only hunt public property, private property it isn't worth the hassle to me, I know I may be missing some good finds but I also don't want to spend all day detecting only to turn over my best coins or other finds to a greedy land owner. I don't do it for the money, i've never sold any of my finds, but if i spend all day detecting and find a nice large cent or Bust coin i do not want to hand it over never to be seen again. If I know the person or someone see's me detecting and offers to let me hunt their yards then I would but I can't see myself going door to door, It was a big enough PITA when I was a kid collecting the money for the paper I delivered. I can only imagine most people's attitudes when I ask to dig up their lawn looking for valuables. A 50/50 split is almost impossible to do unless its an item of real value and you find a buyer. I don't mind helping people find lost items, I found 4 sets of Keys in the snow last winter in the mist of the storms but at the same time I did not get into detecting to hand over everything I find. To each his own I guess.

 

[clovis97]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

This is a very interesting thread.

I would never ever be dishonest with a property owner, or anyone for that matter, but I would be frustrated with the homeowner that was so greedy that they took everything. I know a few people so greedy that they would not only keep the good stuff, but the pull tabs, nails and shards of glass too!!!!

Has anyone found anything of real value, lets say with a value over $100 or more on private property, mainly in someone's yard? I'm not talking about "the ring that mom lost back in '67 while trimming roses", but actual things that the homeowners never knew were there, and were lost long before they ever owned the property.

 

[gleaner1]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

Never ever have I worked a lawn of a "greedy" land owner. It's impossible to do without some sort of conflict. If the land owner is "greedy", you aint gonna get the chance to detect the lawn in the first place. Some people think that just because they get into a lawn they can have all the grubby pennies and chump-change murky dimes they dig. Which is a perfect definition of greed. The word "greedy" used to describe the landowner cannot be used, it is not the proper word, and it's laughable. The land owners own the stuff in their lawns, so the word "greedy" is senseless. They already own it. They want everything in their lawn cause it's all theirs. Greed is a word that describes lust for something not yet obtained, but close at hand. MAKE AN AGREEMENT TO SPLIT ALL FINDS EVEN-STEVEN. If that isn't good enough for the detectorist, then the detectorist is the greedy party. You see? It is impossible to describe the landowner as "greedy". Why is this simple concept so confusing to some people? It's like saying someone is greedy because he wont give you the money out of his wallet, or even a dollar of it. Negotiate your privilege to detect lawns, and the "greed" factor vanishes.

 

[dogpound]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

i agree with the 50/50 split, if i find a clad quarter and a seated quarter the homeowner gets the clad

 

[gleaner1]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

Oh come on man. Split the red book value. You said you agree to splitting 50/50, right? You are not greedy are you? Crack open the wallet and throw the guy a crisp Lincoln for that killer seated quarter worth maybe ten bucks. You'll feel okay with that, right? You both will. After all, an agreement was made, and must be held, especially if greed is ruled out, agreed? Plus, who cares about a seated quarter? It ain't gonna pay the mortgage. It probably wont buy lunch. You can take it home and put it in your collection with a clean conscious. You are not greedy. You are a man of your word. Now, when you pull that fruit jar full of pre-civil war gold coins, you can really start thinking about being greedy. If you want to sneak it out, don't let the landowner see you because now you would be a thief. Unless you are not greedy and split as agreed. Greed is always in the minds of the dishonest detectorist, NEVER the innocent landowner. A silly silver quarter could never eclipse a man's integrity, could it?

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

by right of ownership --you can not be greedy for what yours already --one can only be "greedy" for the stuff of others or gain soon to be gotten -- any stuff in the ground is the landowners legally --peroid -- so your saying the landowner is "greedy" for wanting his own stuff --- now of course he will most likely never know he has it till you "uncover" it for him , thats true-- so in that cause --I think of it as a "partnership" -- he like a crippled man who has "the gold mine" he can not work --and you are the one that digs up his "nuggets" for him (doing the labor) , either one by its self is useless but together its productive for both -- so a partner 50 / 50 split is fair to both . -- and honest .

any man who will sell his honor as a trust worthy , honest man for a mere silver coin or two -- is a pitiful being -- judas at least held out for 30 pieces of silver.

 

[heartslayer2001]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

after reading the posts on here , heres my thought. When you ask for permission to hunt private land and they say yes, i have a paper made up that says, mr.property owner has granted mr,metal detectorist to hunt the property at so and so area. i asked them to sign it in case i am there when no one is around and the sheriff happens to show up and say , hey what ya doin. Then i show him the paper that the owner has given me permission to hunt. As i explained that this could happen to the owner and therefore thats why he signed it. Now its also asked that if i did find something of value, there would be a 50-50 split. this is written on the bottom after his signature. i usally get the permission to hunt. Trick of this is , you go when the owner is out fishin or field work, etc. lol. it works. Also i only ask permission to the places that look like the pic.

 

[Bum Luck]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

Bum Luck, you say:

"EVERYTHING you find on someone else's property is theirs. ...... Not only that, for the sanctimonious on here, EVERYTHING that we find is someone else's property; it's just lost. So, to the above posters, you have a moral obligation to return that property to them. "

Well, technically, the same is true of public property, no matter how innocuous, and no matter how much "allowed" it is, wherever you are at.

For example, pick ...... in your mind ...... a public place near you, where there is absolutely no problem detecting. Ie.: a sandbox at the park, or a beach near you, or wherever you happen to detect, and think the items "belong to you" once you find them. Ok, got that place in your mind? Now I callenge you to do the following: next time you find a nice gold ring or something real nice: Walk into city hall (or whatever entity owns the place you're legally detecting at), walk up to the desk clerk, and ask them "Hi. I found this on your property. Can I have it?" And see what they say.

Well, I've never found a nice gold ring. If that ever happens, I'll give it some thought.

Most of what i find is clad coins. I have found a few Indian cents, a couple of Merc dimes, and some war nickels. Most of these were lost by previous owners of the properties, most now dead. Not only that, if you think that's worth a lot, go on eBay and check it out. Even the $20 that I spent for the 'pocket Morgan' I carry around isn't a great deal of money. It takes me about an hour to earn that vs the time I spend detecting. I've never found one detecting.

I'd attempt to find owners of stuff I find; a good example is a class ring. I'd probably have more fun tracking down the owner than finding it in the first place. I lost mine long ago.

Something decent found in a tot lot probably is lost recently, so you should try to find the owner.

well first off its theirs --no thinking its theirs --it simply is * its a matter of fact -- the real issue iyou are putting forth is actually --how can i get the both the legal OK needed to hunt their land and still keep everything I find in the process? -- now who wants it "all" ? -- you want to go on others folks land that they pay the upkeep and taxes on for "free" and take anything you find that you want -- does this sound fair to you? --if so let me know your address -- since I'm sure you would go for that deal on your own land --fair is fair -- some folks will let you hunt "free" very nice of them -- but with most a deal might need to be struck -- once a deal is struck --stick to it --no monkey bussiness / two pocket dealing stuff --a man that makes a deal and screws others by not sticking to it --is just a thief and a lair * plain and simple * -- no coin or jewelry bobble is worth my word of honor.

you are born with both -- honor and self respect --- no man / woman can take it from you--- only you can dishonor yourself by foul actions and deeds -- honor once sold can not be bought back -- you can unring a bell

Yup, I agree that the property owner owns what's on their property (when it hasn't been lost by a previous family), but I have no obligation to spend my effort and and time finding it. They can spend their own money and time learning to hunt their yards themselves. That is the terms on which I hunt. If I want to give them anything on my own, I would. Most of the time, only their kids appreciate that. I want the option on all $1.37, no apologies. Yes, it is nice of them, and there are no other yards for me. You can have all the rest of them.

You can't hunt my yard, BTW. It's my yard, my call, just like everyone's yard. It's hunted out anyway, of course. If I let you hunt squirrels on my land, of course you could keep the squirrels. You hunted them. I've hunted and fished on private land and most of the time kept the game, but that call is between the landowners and myself. I know which landowners are which. If you hunt at all, you know the rules. Sometimes when all you get is one duck for a tough day of hunting, it's hard to give it up. Other times, when you have better luck, it's nice to come back with a cleaned duck or blue gill fillets (or a bottle of Jack Daniels).

I agree that if you make a deal, you stick with it. But, never deal with greedy people. You'll regret it. NO yard, or no ring, is worth that.

 

[Cable]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

Many opinions---Just a question----are we obligated to turn over that which we find on public property to the authorities that have control over that property. Public meaning that it belongs to everyone-----not to start any debate , just asking. lol lol

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

Many opinions---Just a question----are we obligated to turn over that which we find on public property to the authorities that have control over that property. Public meaning that it belongs to everyone-----not to start any debate , just asking. lol lol

Most states the law says yes, you pay for the authorites to advertise it in local papers and pay for its storage, if no one claims it in 30 days it is suppose to be yours, that is IF it isn't "misplaced, lost or disappears" by the authorities.

If there are no engraving or identifying marks how do you know it is the item lost by the person claiming it is theirs, YOU DON'T! Identical rings are made by the hundreds or thousands. A gold wedding band is a gold wedding band....... The same diamond ring is made in the hundreds and sold through franchise jewelry stores nation wide......

If it has no identifying marks it is mine...............

 

[dogpound]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

Many opinions---Just a question----are we obligated to turn over that which we find on public property to the authorities that have control over that property. Public meaning that it belongs to everyone-----not to start any debate , just asking. lol lol

if you want to turn it in to the authorities go for it, good luck ever seeing it again