Do you "always" ask for permission

[OhioDeb]

Do you "always" ask for permission

There are alot of empty houses and places I don't know the owner or even who to ask. The places along side the sidewalk, the grass between the street and sidewalk. - Is that city owned - Is it fair game to hunt? OhioDeb

 

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[Sandman]

Re: Do you "always" ask for permission

Owners of property, the ones that pay the taxes, can be found at the county clerk's offices. The area between the sidewalk and street belong to the city but the land owner is responsible for them so they should still be asked about detecting there.

 

[Smudge]

Re: Do you "always" ask for permission

Sandman is 100% correct.

 

[Bum Luck]

Re: Do you "always" ask for permission

Correct.

The only time I don't ask is when the city does curb work. It's a mess anyway.

 

[Frankn]

Re: Do you "always" ask for permission

Always ask where they can see you hunt ! Frank

 

[Dwight S]

Re: Do you "always" ask for permission

OhioDeb, in your internet search engine, type in the county & state you are interested in followed by GIS. IE: "Wake County NC GIS" This will get you to the "Geographic Information System" for the area you are interested in. You'll have to zoom in and find the property you want to search. From this site, you should be able to find some basic information on the property, including owner. From there, you can hopefully find a way to contact them.

If its private property, posted or not, ALWAYS ask permission. IF they say no, just move on, there's more out there.

 

[teverly]

Re: Do you "always" ask for permission

well this is one time i have to disagree with some one on asking permission......most curb areas are owned by the city and if they have no law or ordinance against detecting ....i detect them....but you need to check with the individual city where you live and see if it is the same...
the owner of a property here in ohio does not pay taxes on the curb area even though they are required to keep them up....the city can go thru anytime and dig cut down tress ect.....
look at your deed and you will see that the land you pay taxes on is only the land on your side of the side walk.......
Any other time i ask permission......i have been hunting curb areas on and off for the 15yrs i have been detecting and have not had any trouble yet....

 

[ringfinder]

Re: Do you "always" ask for permission

Deb, It's not to hard to find most owners. I use plate maps, which are available at most County agencies. Also a good source is the old plate maps. They show places that are no longer on the new maps. Many of these are good sites to check out.

A lot of old roads are no longer around either and many old log houses were located near these roads. All good places to hunt.

If you need any help, I live near Lima, Ohio probably not to far from you, maybe we could meet up sometime and I could help you out.

HH, Ringfinder

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Re: Do you "always" ask for permission

Well I can see the image issue involved about this curb-strip question, when a house is lived in, and the grassy strip is manicured and mowed, etc.... In those cases, I suppose we could successfully debate that even though it's deemed public property, yet ...... good scruples would require you to get the homeowner's say-so.

However, didn't anyone catch the context of Deb's question? She specifically says "empty houses". Now ....... sure, I suppose the "empty house" is owned by a bank who repo'd it, or an eminent domain deal owned by the city. Or an non-resident owner who elects to just abandon the property for some reason? Who knows. But if it were me, I'd lean towards teverly's stake: I'd just hit it. I would see that as a different "feel" or "image" as opposed to a lived-in house, with kept up curb strips.

But Deb, bear in mind, when you ask a question like this: you're asking a forum where some people will tell you that you should ask permission before detecting a city park sandbox. So ...... go figure you will get answers all over the spectrum.

 

[mts]

Re: Do you "always" ask for permission

It is not always true that the land between the sidewalk and the street belong to the city. This is a fallacy that is continuously being perpetuated on this forum. The truth is "it depends". In some locations the land really does belong to the city. But this is likely the exception rather than the rule. In most places it belongs to the land owner with specific rights granted to the city and public right of way by adding an easement on the deed. In other words, the land owner truly "owns" it and is responsible for it. But the city grants themselves the right to use it for certain purposes like utilities and such. You would have to look at the specific land deed to know for sure. In my area of Ohio it is usually not true that the city owns the land. The land owner "owns" the land. And just because the city doesn't charge you taxes on the land doesn't mean that it isn't owned by you. You really have to look at the deed to know for sure.

Since there is no way to know without looking at the deed in question, you should ask for permission when hunting the area in these easements. Whether or not the land owner truly "owns" the land is irrelevant. You want to be a good metal detecting citizen. Arguing with homeowners about whether or not you have the right to dig in their yard is not a good way to represent the hobby. In other words, just because you legally CAN do something doesn't mean that you should.

 

[ringfinder]

Re: Do you "always" ask for permission

Well I can see the image issue involved about this curb-strip question, when a house is lived in, and the grassy strip is manicured and mowed, etc.... In those cases, I suppose we could successfully debate that even though it's deemed public property, yet ...... good scruples would require you to get the homeowner's say-so.

However, didn't anyone catch the context of Deb's question? She specifically says "empty houses". Now ....... sure, I suppose the "empty house" is owned by a bank who repo'd it, or an eminent domain deal owned by the city. Or an non-resident owner who elects to just abandon the property for some reason? Who knows. But if it were me, I'd lean towards teverly's stake: I'd just hit it. I would see that as a different "feel" or "image" as opposed to a lived-in house, with kept up curb strips.

But Deb, bear in mind, when you ask a question like this: you're asking a forum where some people will tell you that you should ask permission before detecting a city park sandbox. So ...... go figure you will get answers all over the spectrum.

My response to your answer is, it's better to ask, then end up in court after being arrested for tresspassing. It's sort of like hunting, of course I doubt you do much of that in Ca. but here in Ohio you better have a licence and you better have permission from the land owner. NUff Said!

I will say this about abandoned farms, a lot of the time you can find the fellow who farms the land and seek permission from him. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Now if the house is in town, and it is to be torn down, you can get permission from the city, sometimes. Good Luck

HH, Ringfinder

 

[OhioDeb]

Re: Do you "always" ask for permission

Thank y'all for the input. I'm chicken chit about getting caught so I will seek permission although the person on my left shoulder with the horns is telling me to " Go ahead and do it." OhioDeb

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Re: Do you "always" ask for permission

ring-finder, you say:

"My response to your answer is, it's better to ask, then end up in court after being arrested for tresspassing".

Trespassing?? I live right across the street from a park. As such, cars park right in front my house all the time, and people exit the car to to go the park. As such, they step on the grass that's between the sidewalk and street, all the time, in front of my house. I had no idea they were "trespassing" and "could be arrested".

I hope you realize from my jest above, that "trespassing" has absolutely nothing to do with Deb's question. The question is about metal detecting. And I have my doubts that anyone here can cite an example of someone being "arrested" for detecting the curb strip. Especially if, as Deb's question specifically says, abandoned empty homes. If someone has such an incident they can cite for us, I'd love to hear it.

 

[mts]

Re: Do you "always" ask for permission

ring-finder, you say:

"My response to your answer is, it's better to ask, then end up in court after being arrested for tresspassing".

Trespassing?? I live right across the street from a park. As such, cars park right in front my house all the time, and people exit the car to to go the park. As such, they step on the grass that's between the sidewalk and street, all the time, in front of my house. I had no idea they were "trespassing" and "could be arrested".

I hope you realize from my jest above, that "trespassing" has absolutely nothing to do with Deb's question. The question is about metal detecting. And I have my doubts that anyone here can cite an example of someone being "arrested" for detecting the curb strip. Especially if, as Deb's question specifically says, abandoned empty homes. If someone has such an incident they can cite for us, I'd love to hear it.

Just because the police don't want to waste time arresting you for walking on someone's grass doesn't mean that it isn't illegal and that they can't arrest you should you become belligerent about it. And just because you may legally be allowed to do something does not mean that you should do it. Finally, there is a difference between walking on grass/sidewalk and digging. An easement is usually defined to include basic "right of way" for pedestrians. That does not mean that you have free reign over that property or that it is intended for "public use of all kinds". You may be allowed to legally cross it but not dig on it or erect a statue on it.

 

[TerryC]

Re: Do you "always" ask for permission

A short comment to a perrennial subject... the area between the sidewalk and the road DOES belong to the landowner... so does the road from the centerline to the "Property". That's why you must pay for the improvement taxes. Tresspassing on the sidewalk... or grass strip at the road... NOT! I was a cop from '70 to '91. I can say, from personal expeiriece, that they may come out to "suggest" you move on. If you protest and charges "are filed", it will more likely be for disorderly. Ok, move on, but WRITE to the local police (possibly by your lawyer) to get a clarification. They MUST respond in writing. POOF!!! Hold on to your response and take it with you to the next detectging adventure! Thanks.. TTC

 

[Swartzie]

Re: Do you "always" ask for permission

OhioDeb, in your internet search engine, type in the county & state you are interested in followed by GIS. IE: "Wake County NC GIS" This will get you to the "Geographic Information System" for the area you are interested in. You'll have to zoom in and find the property you want to search. From this site, you should be able to find some basic information on the property, including owner. From there, you can hopefully find a way to contact them.

Yep. If your county has a GIS system online it will save you time running around trying to find the owner. You can search property owners online. If it's a place that is visible by people passing by on the street then I'd get the ok from the property owner or at least ask neighbors if they know who the owner is. If it's a wooded lot that looks unkept then you may be able to "sneek" a quick hunt to see if anything good is on the property.

-Swartzie

 

[deepskyal]

Re: Do you "always" ask for permission

Property boundaries vary from place to place. Where my property ends at my front porch here and I don't own the sidewalk and don't pay taxes for it, but must maintain it, in another it extended across a road and half way into an approved trout stream....which I could NOT stop people from fishing in. I paid taxes for all my property within my boundaries. I also had an old RR right-of-way with no tracks that I couldn't build on even though it was my property.
In another place we had no curbs and my property line extended midway into the road which I was NOT responsible to maintain....and I paid taxes on every square inch of my property.

There's just no blanket law that fits every community. It's all in how the original surveys were laid out and local zoning laws....which have that tendency to trump your private property rights.

If the house is abandoned and I want to do the grass strip along the curb, I'd have no problem with it. Generally, around me, there are quite a few abandoned old houses from the mid 1800's but they are so overgrown that detecting would be near impossible and apparently we have an impotent zoning officer that allows this blight to continue. Nobody would care one way or another if you detected the properties if you could. I've cut the grass at a couple to detect and the neighbors generally appreciate that at least for a short period of time the house next door doesn't look like a jungle.
And the mindset here is squatters rights when they do tear down a house. Whatever neighbor decides to maintain the empty lot has that unspoken claim to it...so in that case, I'd ask the squatter just to keep the peace....if it's maintained.
I just have the attitude that if you can't be bothered with maintaining something you own for years and blight the neighborhood then you got no reason to say one word to me if I come by, cut the grass and clean up the trash and do some detecting.
Al

 

[magjm]

Re: Do you "always" ask for permission

My experience is that it depends on the town/city/state. In my mother's hometown, I detected the "subway" as she called it for a few blocks with no problem. I did have the landowners permission for some of it. Houses were being bought up and torn down to extend the local community college, and I detected those areas as well. In some places it is legal to park a car there (no parking on the street for snow removal), if you do not block the sidewalk. In another town or 2, in another state, I was able to detect without permission. This was not nice manicured lawns. However, if asked to move on I would have done so. It has been also been my experience that sidewalks, if present already, or required, must be maintained by the landowner whether or not taxes are paid. Who do you think gets sued if someone trips and falls? Complaints can be filed if sidewalks are blocked by shrubbery, and most towns fine the landowner if snow and ice are not removed. Owners are a might touchy therefore about strangers loitering or detecting.

In a nearby city, there are many houses empty after storm damage that now belong to the city. They granted permission to some of us to metal detect those areas. It may be the same for your abandoned houses.

Magjm

 

[Goes4ever]

Re: Do you "always" ask for permission

I agree it varies from town to town...in my city, I emailed the mayors office and they told me the city does in fact own the strip between the street and sidewalk and it was fair game for me to detect. I have hunted several blocks of strips in my town without a single person ever coming out of their house. A lot of good finds can be found in them strips

 

[dahut]

Re: Do you "always" ask for permission

There are alot of empty houses and places I don't know the owner or even who to ask. The places along side the sidewalk, the grass between the street and sidewalk. - Is that city owned - Is it fair game to hunt? OhioDeb

Usually it is, yes. And most often, the owner is charged with upkeep on it. Damned if you do - damned if you dont.
I suggest you find the owners of the vacant houses and approach them about detecting. Go to the tax office in your city to find them.