Apparently they must be mding in Turkey

[Tom_in_CA]

Apparently they must be md'ing in Turkey

A friend of mine (non detectorist) just got back from a vacation in Turkey. While there, walking the streets of Istanbul, he saw this sign. It made him think of me, so he shot this pix. It's advertising the sale of metal detectors apparently.

I found this odd, because whenever those seriously ancient countries in those areas are thought of, it's just *assumed* they are off-limits to detecting. And I suppose if you looked around enough, you could even find legal texts to address "antiquities" there, etc.... Well, I guess there must be detecting going on there

 

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[U.K. Brian]

Re: Apparently they must be md'ing in Turkey

They metal detect in most countries just subject to the rules as in the U.S., Britain or Spain. Turkey has its own detector manufacturing industry that has the advantage that they think a little out of the box so its not just another VLF motion design being churned out.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Re: Apparently they must be md'ing in Turkey

"They metal detect in most countries just subject to the rules as in the U.S., Britain or Spain"

Brian, why then, when someone is about to vacation or travel in other countries (especially these super old ones) that when they ask "is it legal to detect there?", that they get the resounding "no's" and "don't even think about it", etc.... answers? I've seen it happen over and over on forums, when the subject comes up. And the answerer will undoubtedly cite scary sounding cultural heritage verbage, export laws, antiquities stuff, and start talking about rat infested jails, blah blah blah.

I agree with you: The same could be said of the USA and Britain too: There are places here too that are off-limits. And if a foreigner were to come here, and start reading ARPA, or posts about state park rules, etc.... he too might be persuaded to think "oh no, detecting isn't legal in the United States!". Yet we all know that as long as you use prudence to not snoop around obvious historic monuments ..... you're ok. Or are on farmers private fields with permission (which is outside the scope of laws that pertain to public land, and not private land), that you're ok.

 

[U.K. Brian]

Re: Apparently they must be md'ing in Turkey

There's countries where the landowner is not allowed to give permission for detecting on his land. He can't even detect it himself.
There's also countries were you can detect in theory but have designated no go zones. This was something they were pushing for in Britain some years back. Cathederal cities that had attracted huge wealth in the past were to have a central point selected on a map and then a exclusion zone going out several miles would be set up. One suggestion was fifteen miles. Within the circle you would not even be able to try out a new detector in your own garden. This did encourage more people to actively defend the hobby.

Private land in Europe and most other countries does not have any exemption from those laws designed to protect heritage (which could be a building or a coin). In the U.K. a farmer can find himself in the position that he has to obtain permission to sink a gatepost for a new gate. This has an added advantage from the point of view of the archaeologist in that a landowner is put off giving permission to detect on land where it is allowed just in case anything important is found that may lead to restrictions being imposed. I can get permission to detect sites where new properties are to be built or construction has just started fairly easily but one thing is made clear and that's that finds must not be reported as it could mean a delay or even work being stopped completely if it was decided it could be an important archaeological site.

The other side of the coin is that there know alls who will swear you can't detect in a country when in fact you can. Could be an island where wreck diving is banned but a standard detector on the beach is fine or a large country like Ireland where Northern Ireland comes under British law but Southern under their own rules which is don't do it on land but most beaches are O.K. One big head in the U.S. would insist Southern Ireland did allow detecting because Minelab were located there. A few who returned to trace their roots soon found out he was wrong.

Still I'm not going to bother in the future. If someone says its fine to detect on the Whitehouse lawn it must be so. Let people learn from experience.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Re: Apparently they must be md'ing in Turkey

"There's countries where the landowner is not allowed to give permission for detecting on his land. He can't even detect it himself"

Ok then, assuming Turkey is one such country, where any laws truly do encompass all the way down to a private owners own front yard, then let me ask you a question:

If in that very location, metal detectors are in fact sold (as is the case here with Turkey, and .... as you say .... southern Ireland via a minelab dealer there), then .... where are those metal detectors being used? I mean, if they truly are illegal to use, EVEN on private land, then ...... why & how are they being sold there? I mean, you would *think* that the buyers must be using them somehere, and not buying them to be wall ornaments, eh?

 

[TerryC]

Re: Apparently they must be md'ing in Turkey

Land mines.... MILLIONS of land mines in the ground in those war intensive areas. Detectors needed to find the land mines. TTC

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Re: Apparently they must be md'ing in Turkey

Terry, good one there bro. I suppose they'd have industrial purposes too. Like looking for nails in logs before chain-sawing them (because nails cause havoc with chainsaw blades). Or looking for property boundry markers. Or ..... heck, looking for that "ring you just lost", right?

So if they are for the purpose of land-mines (just an example), then I suppose that wherever you looked (private farm land with permission, just to be way-clear of obvious historic ruins, archie sites, etc....), then presto: you are merely "looking for landmines", right?

 

[TerryC]

Re: Apparently they must be md'ing in Turkey

Terry, good one there bro. I suppose they'd have industrial purposes too. Like looking for nails in logs before chain-sawing them (because nails cause havoc with chainsaw blades). Or looking for property boundry markers. Or ..... heck, looking for that "ring you just lost", right?

So if they are for the purpose of land-mines (just an example), then I suppose that wherever you looked (private farm land with permission, just to be way-clear of obvious historic ruins, archie sites, etc....), then presto: you are merely "looking for landmines", right?

Hmmm, I don't know, Tom. Better be fluent in Farsi or Pashto when some 16 year old sticks an AK47 in your face. So you can explain why there are dozens of land mines in the bed of your truck. TTC

 

[bigscoop]

Re: Apparently they must be md'ing in Turkey

Don't know. But I do think their signs are really cool! Do you suppose companies are paying to get their product on those signs?

 

[TerryC]

Re: Apparently they must be md'ing in Turkey

Yes. Maybe those signs are Turkey's version of "adopt a highway". TTC

 

[Shambler]

Re: Apparently they must be md'ing in Turkey

Used to live in Turkey and still have friends there. They tell me it's forbidden. If it's like anything else there though, a fifth of whiskey or a carton of cigs, will get you overlooked.

 

[wrecker]

Re: Apparently they must be md'ing in Turkey

I spent a week of vacation in Turkey this April. Took my detector and long handle scoop with me on the plane (checked in as oversize luggage). Detected the beach almost every day (but didn't find much actually). Of course I know all these stories about turkish prisons and going to jail if they find just a simple rock in your luggage at the airport. And of course I would only hunt the beach for modern jewelry and clad. No problem for beach hunting as long as you don't find anything old I think.
And I often go to Spain. But strictly beach hunting only. Never had any problem, not with the local police nor at the airports.

 

[U.K. Brian]

Re: Apparently they must be md'ing in Turkey

Tom you are assuming again. Don't lump Turkey with Ireland as its just going to confuse people.

Final time. You can detect anywhere in the world if you want to risk it. You can also drink drive. You may get away with it you might not. If you have a friend in inland Spain who will allow you to detect his land and its not overlooked you have a good chance of getting away with it but you might not.

All got summed up so well by the guy from Portugal where there is a detecting ban " we have an arrangement with the Police. If they don't see you they don't arrest you".

 

[Mzjavert]

Re: Apparently they must be md'ing in Turkey

Is it legal to detect where I'm going on vacation...

...just one reason why do it yourself internet travel sites don't replace a good Travel Agent.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Re: Apparently they must be md'ing in Turkey

mzjavert, can you be a little more specific? What do you mean? Did someone (a "travel agent") tell you it was ok to detect where you're going to there? As in strictly just this one spot? Or other spots "like this too"? (like perhaps the beach, as opposed to land sites, for example....). So please expand on your answer.

UK-brian, I'm confused, now you're back to seeming to say it's utterly forbidden in Turkey, border-to-border, everywhere, even private land, etc..... (you're back to talking about police, sneaking, getting-away-with-it, etc....) But earlier in this thread, you hinted that there must places there where it must be allowed (based on the fact that they are selling Whites there, and/or have detectors actually made by Turkish manufacturers, etc....). So which is it Brian?? Total ban? Or allowed at some places "subject to a few observations" (just like the USA or Britain where the same could be said of).

And if you say that it's "utter and complete ban, border to border, don't even think of it" type fears, then pray-tell: Where are those detectors that are being sold there, being used? Perhaps strictly for commercial purposes? (land-mines? nails in logs? etc...)

 

[U.K. Brian]

Re: Apparently they must be md'ing in Turkey

Tom you said "lets assume Turkey...." not me. All I said was that they had a manufacturing industry for metal detectors with companies such as Nokta. You also came up with the phrase "utter and complete ban" not me.

Now not that many people get in trouble in their own countries, its people flying round the world who don't speak or read the language. My example was Ireland, could just as well have been Cyprus or India. People go on the forums and say I've just been on holiday to XXX with no problems. They fail to mention that the country is split with different laws or in the case of India different States, again with different rules.

I always say email the Embassy of a country before you go. If they say O.K. you print off their reply and take it with you. If they say no, which is rare, its more likely beaches only, or private land with permission, or subject to the local police or mayor giving permission, you carry on if you want and preferably contact the detector sellers in that country to find out exactly what you can get away with. Easy !

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Re: Apparently they must be md'ing in Turkey

Brian: Let's cut to the chase: Is it legal to detect in Turkey, or is it not. I'm asking you this time, so you can't say it me the one saying it is, or is not, legal. I was trying to infer from what you wrote, what your answer was. But you turn it around, and say that it's me the one saying it (even though it was you that I was trying to quote from).

So let's let you answer clearly: Is it legal there, or is it not? And if it's not: then why the detector sales there? And if it is legal (in some locations there), then why the immediate "oh no, don't even think of it" admonitions when people ask about whether it's legal or not there?

You say:

"They fail to mention that the country is split with different laws or in the case of India different States, again with different rules."

Yes, and the same can be said of the USA or Britain too, eh? We too have places where you can't detect, right? Thus all it is, is a question of knowing where it's allowed, and where it's not. Thus I ask again why the immediate knee-jerk allusions to utter border to border prohibitions, when it's clear that this is not true?

And you say:

"I always say email the Embassy of a country before you go...."

Would you believe people have done just that, and gotten the wrong answer? They have gotten "no's", where no real prohibition exists. Whatever desk-bound bureaucrat who answers their "pressing inquiry" simply couches their question in terms of federal antiquities stuff, or shipwreck salvor stuff, or export/import laws (thinking you're planning on exporting gold bars ........ afterall ...... you "never know"), etc.... So people have done just what you say, and gotten "no's", only to be mildly surprised when they arrive at their beach hotel, and see other md'rs on the beach without a care in the world.

So I like your second advice better: "contact the detector sellers in that country to find out ......... "

 

[U.K. Brian]

Re: Apparently they must be md'ing in Turkey

You really should get out detecting instead of chasing round several forums where you keep getting told the same thing but we will try again.

All objects are the property of the State. Detectors can be sold but the prices are very high as so much tax/import duty is placed on them. The authorities worry that you may try to sell your detector to a local thus helping him avoid tax.
People do use them on the beaches but the problem is that whilst locals seem to be able to use correctly imported detectors they do arrest holiday makers from other countries.
Dig around and you will find reports of Turkish jails and how little the U.S. Embassy will do for you.

Yalniz Guvercin has a detector business in Turkey and posts on a few of the U.S. forums. I've detected in Turkey at Bursa Keys with no problems but I borrowed a detector and went with a local.
You do keep mentioning Embassies...why miss out the part where I say " if they say its O.K. you print that out to wave under the nose of the local Police (in Ireland there's a beach where detecting isn't banned but the local policeman will chase you off because his brother detects it regularly). If they (an Embassy) say no you don't not have to take a detector but check carefully whats happening when you arrive.

All could change at a days notice. Turkey is trying to get into the E.U. at the moment and some laws may soften up though I doubt it as the general move is towards a Europe wide ban.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Re: Apparently they must be md'ing in Turkey

".... chasing round several forums where you keep getting told the same thing ..."

So too is it the "same old thing" when persons come on forums asking about any country, and getting "no's". Is that not the "same old thing" too from the other way around?

"All objects are the property of the State."

Would this be true of things found even on private land there? How about Britain, don't things, even found on private land, if above a certain value or age or importance, have to go "the crown", etc...? So then in that regard, how would Turkey be any different that the UK? And you say it's ok on the beaches there, then are you saying that the loose change, rings, etc... belong to "the state"? Just want to make sure I understand you correctly.

"People do use them on the beaches but the problem is that whilst locals seem to be able to use correctly imported detectors they do arrest holiday makers from other countries."


Ah, so beach detecting there is legal. But only legal for Turkish citizens. Am I understanding you correctly? Can you please cite the law that says this? I'd be very interested to read it. Both the statute that says beaches are ok (verses land), and the statute that says: ".... but only Turkish citizens."

"I've detected in Turkey at Bursa Keys with no problems but I borrowed a detector and went with a local."

Oh no, wait, how did you go detecting in Turkey, if you aren't a Turkish citizen? Your name is U.K.-Brian, signifying U.K. citizenship I thought. Or are you now saying that foreigners can indeed hunt in Turkey, so long as they are in the company of a Turkish citizen? In that case, I anxiously await the citation of law which clarifies that foreigners can hunt, so long as accompanied by a Turkish citizen. Afterall, it wouldn't be difficult to merely befriend a local and say, "come join me", eh?

"You do keep mentioning Embassies .... " if they say its O.K. you print that out to wave under the nose of the local Police "

Brian, where do the "embassies" get their answer from? They merely take the question, and tell you what the laws are, right? So why can't someone merely look it up for themselves, rather than ask an embassy? If the embassy's answer is going to couched in the actual written laws anyhow, what difference would it make? The ability to "wave something under the nose of a local police" is equally there: You merely tell them there's no prohibitions. In the same way that if a cop tried to give you a ticket for making a U-turn, you merely point out to him that U-turns aren't prohibited, right? And to take the analogy further: You would not need to necessarily "check with embassies" before making a U-turn, if you know for a fact that they are not prohibited to begin with, at the intersection you have just come to.