The MD vs Archie Debate
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  1. #1
    us
    Feb 2012
    Ponca City, OK
    Bounty Hunter SharpShooter II
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    Metal Detecting, Ghost Towning, Relics, Prospecting, Coin Shooting

    The MD vs Archie Debate

    I hate that there is a large disconnect between archeologists and metal detectorists. It makes no sense whatsoever.

    Astronomers do not detest the amateur astronomer. As a matter of fact, most new astronomical discoveries are made by the amateur. 99% of new comets are discovered by the amateur.

    The National Weather Service depends on the amateur storm spotter for accurate weather reports. As advanced as Radar technology has become, they still have 'holes' and the professional meteorologist knows they need to be filled and gladly use the services of amateur storm spotters, chasers and ham radio operators.

    Fire, police and search and rescue personell knows that the amateur radio operator will be there when all other means of communicaions fail. Most agencies use the amateur radio operator for advice and technical assistance to try and prevent their radios from failing but they also utilize them just in case they do fail. Usually they become overwhelmed rather than completely fail but you just never know.

    So many professional responders and so many other fields of science understands the importance of the amateur and desires to keep a good relationship with them. If only archealogists understand this and knew that the exclusive club they currently choose to create is only harmful to the science. We are all naturally interested in our past. Where we came from. Where we are going. These answers arent going to be easy to find. Imagine if more of us were seeking the answers in a cooperative manner.

  2. #2
    us
    "Is that a Geiger Counter?"

    Feb 2006
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    Re: The MD vs Archie Debate

    Astronomers do not detest amateur astronomers because you can look at a star many times without changing it.

    An object can only be disturbed and removed from the soil once - and that one opportunity to record it properly is lost if it is done without noting the surroundings and strata information, and relationship to other items.

    But the world will not be any less rich for having a bullet dug or a dropped coin recovered.


    PS - how can this topic be "Hot" if I'm the first responder and I'm half asleep and keeping company with Jim Beam?
    America was founded by tough hell-raisers. Rugged citizens who evaded taxes, spoke strongly against tyranny, grew tobacco, brewed beer, distilled spirits, and smuggled weapons. And it will be saved by those same types of citizens.

  3. #3

    Oct 2005
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    Re: The MD vs Archie Debate

    There should be no problems between the two groups but there is due to the fact that archeologists cost a great deal of money and are not effective at actually finding sites.

    A few do admit that the strata information means little or nothing. All the soil in the reach of the standard hobby detector is subject to worm and animal disturbance, frost heavage, ploughing etc. So someone digging out a coin or small artifact makes no real difference apart from it could be a clue to ancient site if the find is reported. Unfortunately here the archeologist often doesn't play fair and will attempt to have a detecting band imposed on a large area and will even try and influence a farmer to refuse all detecting in the future.

    Little wonder that many are afraid to report their finds.

  4. #4
    us
    Apr 2007
    Gladstone, Michigan
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    Re: The MD vs Archie Debate

    My personal experience with an archie was negative.

    I found an artifact and in the search for information on it I contacted an archie in my area. I was treated rudely and she demanded I tell her where the item was found. I told her where she could pound sand and left it at that.

    No person will treat me rudely and then try to make demands, as if I would be intimidated by some knuckle dragging troglodyte with a degree.

    PROUD ANTITHEIST

  5. #5
    us
    Feb 2012
    Ponca City, OK
    Bounty Hunter SharpShooter II
    17
    Metal Detecting, Ghost Towning, Relics, Prospecting, Coin Shooting

    Re: The MD vs Archie Debate

    My point is that all the other sciences understands that maintaining a good working relationship with their amateur counterparts is an important aspect of their respective fields. As another poster pointed out, most of our finds are shallow and not detrimental to their science of archealogy. I read several archealogy journals and mags and love it. But I get the hurts when I see them denigrate the detectorists. Most of us are after the lost coin, the relic that museums are already loaded down with, some so much they start selling them off, we arent after the elusive artifact that proves Europeans were here before the Indians. Fact is, our detectors arent going to give us the depth required for that kind of find. Instead of treating us as looters, they ought to be more open and even come to detector club meetings and educate. I, for one, would love to have a freindly archie come and teach and make himself available for when we find something that is rare and will be more willing to call him before we pull it out of the ground. I would volunteer on a local archie dig to scan the ground with my MD and then of they want, I would scan at each layer. It's my nature to be more helpful than hurtful, if I am educated and respected.

  6. #6
    us
    Mar 2011
    Chandler Tx
    White's VX3, Garrett AT PRO, Tesoro Cibola
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    Re: The MD vs Archie Debate

    What I really think it comes down to is "snubbing" in the scientific community. One entity declares themselves professionals and then declares a similar pursuit hokum or demonizes it.

    For instance.... another interest of mine is Crypto-zoology, the study of undiscovered/documented animal life. Zoologists do not consider Cryptos as scientists.... they say they are kooks out looking for bigfoot or nessie. The reality is that hundreds of new species are discovered annually. Most of these are bugs and birds in dense rain forests. When a Crypto discovers something, the Zoologists tend to dismiss it as a miss identification etc.. When the specimen is produced and cannot be dismissed, it then becomes a great find by the "scientific community". They indirectly take credit for the finding....as Crypto-Zoology is "not science". A rift is perpetuated in the two communities.

    Same for Archies and MD'ers, I would assume. Where the holders of credentials call the "non scientific" MD'er a looter that "destroys" history by "looting" artifacts out of context.... supposedly rendering them worthless as historical evidence. It is a great insult to detectorists that go out in the interest of preserving historical relics and documenting finds on legally "huntable" property to then be called looters and pot-hunters. It is not much consolation when archies employ the use of MD'ers to work UNDER them... as a great "asset to the team" then turn around and bash your metal detecting peers/community.

    We MD'ers deserve recognition as finders and preservers of history if we treat it as such.
    If you ever hit the big one detecting....follow the 3S rule. Shoot. Shovel and Shut up.

  7. #7
    us
    Mar 2010
    Florida
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    Re: The MD vs Archie Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by ryaan21
    My personal experience with an archie was negative.

    I found an artifact and in the search for information on it I contacted an archie in my area. I was treated rudely and she demanded I tell her where the item was found. I told her where she could pound sand and left it at that.

    No person will treat me rudely and then try to make demands, as if I would be intimidated by some knuckle dragging troglodyte with a degree.

    If you told her where you found it, your site would have been gone. She wasnt interested in helping you, only in taking your site. Way to go. Let her find her own site. When its illegal to pick up a surface find, something is wrong. On state land in Florida thats the law. They dont come up with these laws on their own, the archies push for them.

 

 

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