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Thread: Denied access to construction site-advice?

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  1. #16
    us
    Jun 2012
    South Jersey
    Whites IDX Pro
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Sorry forgot to add:

    Tom-those must have been the days! I would have considered the public school, but the fence would probably have stopped me-bawk! bawk! yup, quite a chicken sometimes...... : )
    I would rather be the man who bought the Brooklyn Bridge than the man who sold it ~ Will Rogers

  2. #17

    Jun 2012
    Cackalacky
    arrr, just need me nose
    233
    84 times
    Prospecting
    I do want to clarify that when I mentioned that waivers etc. were considered worthless, this only applies to the corporate folk.

    Fancy pieces of paper are priceless when dealing with individuals or small businesses.

  3. #18
    us
    Demoman

    Jul 2007
    Minelab xterra 70
    38
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    Catobra, you may want to try and find an MD'ing club close by. My club has a liability policy that lets them make someone else an additional insured. I'm in the process now of getting permission to hunt some federal land that has no trespaasing signs on it. It used to be an old military base.
    Rick S

    WHAT YOU GIVE OUT IN SLICES COMES BACK IN LOAVES!!!

  4. #19

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    6,165
    1819 times
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catobra View Post
    Tom-those must have been the days! ....

    Well I bet that EVEN THEN, if we'd gone and asked enough questions, of enough bureaucrats, with the right combination of buzzwords, then sure, you can ALWAYS find yourself a "no". I bet that even at the most innocuous modern sandbox, in any city, I can find a "no". All I need to do is throw out phrases like "treasure", "dig", "holes", "liability", "artifact that should belong to city museums", and so forth. And sure enough, you will always find yourself a "no". All you do is simply preclude yourself from places where, odds are, no one would ever have cared or noticed.

    Oh, and back to the original Q, when a contractor (or cities or whatever) gives you the song and dance about "liability", it almost always does NO GOOD to produce a waiver, or show them your own insurance policy to cover yourself, etc.... Because you see, this is just their answer, and the reality is, they just "don't want to be bothered". Ie.: why should they bother with having to go through reviewing your proofs of insurance, etc... The easy answer is always "no", and they just say the "liability" thing so as not to be bothered by you.
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

  5. #20
    us
    Jul 2010
    New Hampshire USA
    Fisher F70
    1,126
    43 times
    Metal Detecting
    Don't let people scare you off... The coin in my avitar was found on a construction site that the GC gave me permission to hunt the piles in.

    They were tearing up a park to build a new playground and dugouts. The dirt from the playground and ballfield was piled up behind the construction trailers.

    I asked if I could detect the piles and he said have at it.

    Granted it's not likely that you will get permission, but you never know... the chance is there.
    Last edited by SeaninNH; Jul 19, 2012 at 06:51 PM.

  6. #21
    us
    Jun 2012
    South Jersey
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    RickJr-I have been thinking about attending a meeting to see what it's like. I didn't know that clubs had things like that. Best of luck getting permission for the base (and, if you do, finding some great finds!)

    Tom-I agree, most of corporate America is too lazy or stupid to get out of their own way, let alone mine : )

    Sean-I think that would be the ticket on a smaller scale, not-so-high-profile site. This site has had a lot of attention drawn to it over the years (not because of any historical reason), is at a well-traveled intersection and has a local cop on site during the day. It is something I would def consider on a smaller site.
    I would rather be the man who bought the Brooklyn Bridge than the man who sold it ~ Will Rogers

  7. #22
    us
    Jan 2011
    Dalton,Ga.
    Whites MXT, E Trac, Garrett Pro Pinpointer
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    Quote Originally Posted by PYRATE View Post
    The only time to ask permission from "the boss" on a large project is AFTER being kicked off of the project site by someone who isn't the boss. Unless you get it from the GC's secretary, it is doubtful you will ever get permission from a GC, but if you've already been kicked off site, you have nothing to lose by asking. Waivers and other legal paperwork are completely useless in these situations and you'll only get permission from a GC if you have a common friend or if he likes you and recognizes you to be a like-minded individual. (95% of the time he won't)

    Here is how to get permission to access a site:
    Rule 1: Never ask a GC, supervisor, project manager etc. (these are usually the clean guys with white hats, nice trucks and expensive shirts)

    If everyone on a site with no overhead work is wearing a hard hat, an inspector/client/osha/etc. is around and you should come back at a different time. (I shouldn't have to say it, but never ever venture onto a site with overhead work under any circumstance)

    There will be subcontractors working for the GC and you want to ask a lower level employee of one of the subs. Generally speaking the best guys to ask are the ones with dirt on their shirts, and even better are the guys who don't speak much English.

    Never interrupt, ask a formal question or make them raise an eyebrow, just say something like "is everything ok?" or "am I good over here?" when walking past. If you talk with anyone at length, form a bond and be incredibly nice. If told to leave, apologize and mention that you'd been told it was ok and begin to leave, then hesitate and ask who you'd need to speak with to get permission. Remember the old adage about honey being sweeter than vinegar and if you get booted off site, never be a jerk about it.

    Other things: Never go when the site is busy (unless it is so busy that you will not be noticed) - Try to look like you belong on site. Wear work clothes and minimize the hobbyist appearance. If you look like you are homeless, a criminal or another undesirable character, please recognize that you look like an undesirable character and don't be upset when you are not desired.

    If you are or were involved in law enforcement, the military, construction, unions or anything which may be respected by folks on site, it may be helpful to have a minimally sized badge or pin etc, but don't go overboard with it.

    If you are confronted, it may be helpful to mention a family/friend connection to the site (ahem ahem) and never use "historic" terms or let on that you care anything remotely about history.

    Lastly, consider what you would think if you were in charge of the site and some unknown person was wandering around. Make it a point to avoid equipment, materials or dangerous places. Don't get in the way. Don't be a nuisance. Keep far away from anything of value. If you look like you are casing the joint, you will be treated like a thief.
    Hmmmm................If I were standing on the edge of a cliff, I would'nt want you behind me. How hard is it to understand NO!!!!!!, Your suggestions above, personally sound (forgive my french) STUPID!!! How about the honest aproach, no is no and yes is yes........If i go to a construction site you want me to talk to the little mexican laborer to get perrmission........Thats whats wrong with our hobby!
    Bum Luck likes this.


    If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."
    -Samuel Adams-

  8. #23
    us
    Jan 2012
    Garrett Ace250 Minelab Safari
    1,035
    386 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    No this guy made the mistake on a site with abandon houses and from what I understand that Havnt started working. Just go at it there's no fences, or no tress passing signs hanging do it up. The worst they will do is tell you to leave.

    I've seen a few post of people always wanting permission form people for places such as churchs, schools, parks etc. The only places I will ask for permission is someones house. I'm sorry if everyone doesn't feel the same way.

  9. #24

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    6,165
    1819 times
    Banner Finds (3)
    Greg, I don't think that what was meant , was to approach a low level laborer AFTER getting a "no" from someone higher up. Instead I think what was meant , was to START with the lower level person . And if they say yes , then don't argue with a "yes".
    PYRATE likes this.
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

  10. #25
    us
    Jun 2012
    South Jersey
    Whites IDX Pro
    556
    108 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by dholland02 View Post
    No this guy made the mistake on a site with abandon houses and from what I understand that Havnt started working. Just go at it there's no fences, or no tress passing signs hanging do it up. The worst they will do is tell you to leave.

    I've seen a few post of people always wanting permission form people for places such as churchs, schools, parks etc. The only places I will ask for permission is someones house. I'm sorry if everyone doesn't feel the same way.
    Ok, sorry, but I find a few things wrong with this post:

    #1 I'm a woman, but no biggie honest mistake

    #2 The houses were not abandoned, but empty and boarded up after being purchased many years ago by a developer to make room for an as-yet-unknown retailer. Signs for this developer have always been posted at a couple of locations on the site.

    #3 As previously stated, they have started working as there are several huge moving "earth-mover" type vehicles scattered around the site, pushing dirt around and leaving behind yellow construction dirt (a technical term, I know : )

    #4 Although I was 99.9% sure that "Do not enter a privately owned site without the owner's permission" was an integral part of the metal detectorists ethics, I double checked a few other websites, and yes, that is the case on each one-in fact, usually stated as #1 on the list. "Don't ask permission" has been a frequent response of this thread, and like Greg says above, "That's what's wrong with our hobby!" I am quite surprised that so many posters of this thread have either said outright, "Don't ask permission" or alluded to it. As diggummup posted about in a recent thread (loosely paraphrased), "Where have people's integrity and ethics gone?" As far as I know, "privately owned" includes commercial sites.

    Let the hate mail begin : )
    I would rather be the man who bought the Brooklyn Bridge than the man who sold it ~ Will Rogers

  11. #26
    us
    Jan 2012
    Garrett Ace250 Minelab Safari
    1,035
    386 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Sorry I ddnt know ur gender my bad

    But we all have diffenret views in this here and I know mine and many people on here I'm sure dnt argee with me and that's fine. I was just giving my opinion on it

  12. #27

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    6,165
    1819 times
    Banner Finds (3)

    reply

    Quote Originally Posted by Catobra View Post
    Ok, sorry, but I find a few things wrong with this post:

    #1 I'm a woman, but no biggie honest mistake

    #2 The houses were not abandoned, but empty and boarded up after being purchased many years ago by a developer to make room for an as-yet-unknown retailer. Signs for this developer have always been posted at a couple of locations on the site.

    #3 As previously stated, they have started working as there are several huge moving "earth-mover" type vehicles scattered around the site, pushing dirt around and leaving behind yellow construction dirt (a technical term, I know : )

    #4 Although I was 99.9% sure that "Do not enter a privately owned site without the owner's permission" was an integral part of the metal detectorists ethics, I double checked a few other websites, and yes, that is the case on each one-in fact, usually stated as #1 on the list. "Don't ask permission" has been a frequent response of this thread, and like Greg says above, "That's what's wrong with our hobby!" I am quite surprised that so many posters of this thread have either said outright, "Don't ask permission" or alluded to it. As diggummup posted about in a recent thread (loosely paraphrased), "Where have people's integrity and ethics gone?" As far as I know, "privately owned" includes commercial sites.

    Let the hate mail begin : )
    Well for starters, those who advocate not asking for permission, might be referring to public places where permission is not needed, .... to begin with.

    But let's put public parks, beaches, demolition sites, etc... aside for a moment, as a different subject. Let's focus insead for the moment on different types of private property:

    Are you aware that shopping centers are "private property"? Yup. Yet if you go down to any shopping center, you will see people coming and going without asking. There is usually a brass plaque in the parking lot, or on a signpost or somewhere, that reads something to the effect: "Private Property, permission to pass revokable by owner". In other words, they are quasi-public, in that the public can certainly go on there, and whistle dixie, or do whatever, and ...... unless told otherwise (ie.: "revoked"), he's ok. The same sort of "quasi-public" feel is at churches (where anyone can walk through the doors on Sunday AM, or take a short-cut across the lawn, etc... and no one would pay a second glance.

    But contrast those types of quasi-public, with someone's private front yard, of a personal home.

    I know this is "splitting hairs", and I know that hate-mail will come my way too, but ...... I see a difference between if Walmart or some out-of-state developer has bought up a block of old homes, or a derelict abandoned corner lot or something, to prepare to develop (and thus scrapes off a juicy few inches in an old town district ) verses someone's front yard. As I say, I know this is splitting hairs, but .... I bet even the most ardent ethics person still steps off the sidewalk to take a short cut through a weed-choked corner lot. I mean, c'mon.

    You have rightly observed that the "code of ethics" (seen frequently in md'ing websites, the md'ing magazine front inside cover, and on the instruction manual of all machines sold) does NOT say anything about this. It just makes a blanket statement about all private property (regardless of the level of innocuousness). Why? Because did you *really* think they could go into great detail about abandoned vs *not really* abandoned, and so forth? In fact, if you read some of those codes of ethics lists, (depending on the version), some persons have come away with the notion that they also must have permission for even public places (even where no prohibitions exist), merely because the code says something to the effect "know and obey all laws" (which they interpret to mean ... go ask "can I?" )
    Last edited by Tom_in_CA; Jul 22, 2012 at 09:24 PM.
    Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!

  13. #28
    us
    Jun 2012
    South Jersey
    Whites IDX Pro
    556
    108 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    As much as I love an intelligent and spirited debate and would love to shoot holes in Tom's most recent reply, it seems that this is a no win situation-there are simply those of us who believe that asking permission is a must-have and black-and-white and others who believe that there are quite a few shades of gray.
    I would rather be the man who bought the Brooklyn Bridge than the man who sold it ~ Will Rogers

  14. #29
    us
    Jul 2009
    Whiting, NJ
    Ace 250
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    This falls under ninja metal detecting 101, but you didn't hear it from me

    Go to Home Depot and but yourself a hardhat and reflective vest. Then just show up on the site as a regular worker and get busy

  15. #30

    Jun 2012
    Cackalacky
    arrr, just need me nose
    233
    84 times
    Prospecting
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunrunner61 View Post
    Hmmmm................If I were standing on the edge of a cliff, I would'nt want you behind me. How hard is it to understand NO!!!!!!, Your suggestions above, personally sound (forgive my french) STUPID!!! How about the honest aproach, no is no and yes is yes........If i go to a construction site you want me to talk to the little mexican laborer to get perrmission........Thats whats wrong with our hobby!
    Please re-read my post.

    Once you get a no from the GC, PM etc., you are done, so therefore never ask "the boss" if at all possible because they are going to flat out deny you every single time.

    One of the reasons these guys get to wear the white hat is that they are concerned about risk management.

    Laborers could usually care less about such things, especially the fine gents from the free country to the south of ours.

 

 
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