Kicked off library property??

[goodjoe]

MDIng a public library in Evansville Indiana and a lady comes out and says you can't do that here. I said ok sorry, and left. Then made a call to the dept of parks and recreation asking why a tax funded place can't allow metal detecting. Her response was NO public parks in the city allow it. Seriously?? I've been hunting them and cops don't ever stop when they drive by so I don't get it. Has anybody else ever heard no hunting in public parks at all? Just curious.

 

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[RON (PA)]

I'm from Pittsburgh, Pa and have never had a problem with public parks. Just call the police/borough office to check rules, cover your holes, and report any thing you find that they might need (guns, drugs, etc). Never had a problem here.

 

[Sandman]

Yes it happens when people perceive us as hunters with shovels digging up the grass.

 

[goodjoe]

Ill give it a shot. I always try to leave it to where it doesn't look like anyone was even there. Just seems nuts they ban all of them. Perceived as a hunter with a shovel is right, I asked a bank manager if i could hunt a lot next to the bank and she said "you mean like um digging holes" I tried to explain but most people don't get it and it was still a no.

 

[Bum Luck]

I'd ask them to show you where it's prohibited.

They can't just make up the rules, although they can interpret them.

 

[dholland02]

I'd MD tomorrow and if she came out I'd say there are no signs that say that and turn away and keep at it.

 

[spartacus53]

Next time tell them you were looking for the lost book you were about to return..

See how that works for you

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

I'd ask them to show you where it's prohibited.

They can't just make up the rules, although they can interpret them.

Conversely, they could ask you to show where it is allowed.

The First Ammendment does not allow you to spray paint words on City Hall. And digging holes to remove objects can be seen as distructive to property. Out State Parks forbid it. Not to mention with this litigious society they don't want you stabbing yourself in the foot with your trowel and sueing the city or county (or whoever owns the property).

 

[dholland02]

If there is no signs saying no detecting I'm swiingjng my detector if it's s good area

 

[GoGoGopher]

Hmmm...Not familliar with your area, but our "Public Libraries" are still on Private property...the "Public", just means that the public helps fund the purchase of the books, equipment, and helps pay the light bill...The property the Library sits on is still Private. Also, the looking for a sign thing does not always stand if the City, County or State has a code on the books against detecting in public parks...Remember...Ignorance of the law does not make you exempt.

HH,

 

[dfxone]

Goodjoe, just detect when the library is closed, like Sunday, after 5 pm weekdays etc. Good luck, GH, Don

 

[TNGUNS]

I would just let that dog sleep. Choose your battles. Could create a situation where a new ordinance is passed or a current one is enforced. We know that when properly done, there is no damage to the property. They don't.

 

[williamsingr]

Avoid the hassles go when its closed or next time there will be a sign up for sure, but she is wrong public parks are all open unless posted or stated in your states government web site under DNR.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

To comment on several people's answers so far:

I do not understand what go-go-gopher is talking about, when he says public libraries are on private land. All the states I've been at, a library is public, including the land it sits on, assuming we're talking a "public" library, that is.

As per Charlie P's in-put, why does an acitivity need to be "expressly allowed", or else it's deemed illegal? I mean, for example: If I find no express allowance to whistle dixie in the park, then am I to assume that whistling dixie is illegal? No, of course not, so I don't get your statement. Yes there IS laws that forbid spray-painting graffiti on city hall. It would be seen as the vandalism, defacement, etc.... clauses in any city code. And no, I do not interpret those clauses to apply to md'ing. Because technically, if you do not leave any trace of your presence, then technically, you have not vandalized, or defaced anything, now have you? To think otherwise (that your hobby, by automatic equivalence = "vandalism", "destruction", "alteration", "defacement", etc....) is to have lost the battle already. If you really equate yourself to those destructive phrases, then stick to private property, or sandboxes, or choose another hobby. Because I gaurantee you, if you walk into any city hall and said "Hi, is it ok if I vandalize and tear up the park?", what do you think they're going to say? So on the contrary, if you're leaving no trace of your presence, then technically, those things would not apply to you.

Now is that to say that some busy-body might not agree with those semantics?? SURE! This is why we need to be a little more frickin discreet, like dfxone says, and go at low traffic times (when the library is closed). Because, I mean, Let's face it: we're in an odd-hobby that draws the stares of the curious on-lookers. It has "connotations" (that you might leave a mess), so for pete's sake, why would you go in high traffic times, which simply begs for attention and kill-joys?

Good-joe, as for calling the parks & rec. dept. after this encounter, did the person who told you "no", cite you any such actual rule or code, or wording to that effect? Because I bet it's just her simply morphing something else to apply to your "pressing question". Like .... she simply envisioned geeks with shovels, when truth be told, I bet it would never have occured to her, before you asked. Ie.: I bet if that same lady had been simply driving down the street, and seen a man with a detector in a park, she'd have never paid a second notice. This psychology of "no one cared, till you asked", happens over and over with this topic. NO public official will typically say "sure, go ahead". Because the mere fact you are standing there asking them (especially when you probably started the conversation by saying you'd been booted by a duly appointed city person, who may have been her friend or whatever), simply implies that something must be wrong with your activity, that it needed their sanction, to begin with (lest why would you be asking?). That subconscious inference is not lost on the person you're asking, and they will bestow on you their princely "no" (afterall, you asked). So unless she cited something specific that actually says "no metal detecting", I bet you simply got someone's personal whims. And the trouble now is, if you try to fight it, you may just end up getting a law WRITTEN (or official policy anyhow), from here on out. You'd have been better to look up the muni-codes for yourself (usually on city websites you can find park rules like "no dogs allowed", "Parks close at sunset", and so forth). If you saw nothing specific there, and it's silent on the subject, presto, there's your answer.

As I say, this still doesn't mean you go waltz nilly willy at high traffic times over people's beach blankets. Think of it a little like nose-picking: There may be no rules that forbid it, but if you asked enough people, you will eventually find someone who says you can't do it. So ........ you be a little discreet, and odds are, no one really cared.

I have been booted from parks in various cities before, and I do not take isolated incidents like that to mean there is actually really a rule. If I have a doubt, I can look it up for myself. Otherwise I just avoid *just* that one person's shift, from then on. I mean, good-joe, you said yourself that in the past, authority (cops, workers, etc...) have passed you by, and no one's ever cared. So to me, it sounds like you should have just avoided *just* this one lookie-lou in the future. Her hours would be easy to predict by looking at the library hours sign.

 

[ivan salis]

forcing the issue by trying to hunt during the hours the libery is open and she is there watching (thus not honoring her supposed" authority) and ms "books" will "offically"whine to the city officals (ever thought about doing it "after hours" when she and any other busy bodies just are not there? thus "avoiding" her/ them totally? however if she sees "dead grass spots" look out -- because once she "offically whines" the city politican types in typical knee jerk reaction will then say "a law /rule/ policy is needed" and poof they will make one "appear" in print that will be "on the books" and that will 100% shut down metal detecting on all of your citys "publicly owned lands" --don't believe me? ok just try it and see for yourself , what occurs -- sadly at times it is often best to forgo a "troulblesome spot" and find other places to detect--

 

[dholland02]

Avoid the hassles go when its closed or next time there will be a sign up for sure, but she is wrong public parks are all open unless posted or stated in your states government web site under DNR.

Go when it's closed simple as that

 

[goodjoe]

I didn't get a reason, law, code, etc. I figured I'd let it sit and think about it before I put my foot in my mouth. I looked at the Indiana gov site and couldn't find any rules on parks and after seeing what people thought I think I'll just do the simple thing and go when it's closed. I don't want to stir it up and ruin EVERY park with signs and having every rogue cop stop and run us off. TNGUNS nailed it with picking battles, don't want a war started when I'm usually unnoticed 99% of the time anyway. For now.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

......... she is wrong public parks are all open unless posted or stated in your states government web site under DNR.

williamsinger, what does the state level laws/rules have to do with city-level properties? Whatever rules someone can find for state DNR land, does not necessarily apply to city or county-controlled lands. These are different levels of govt. entities, and can have different rules for their lands.

good-joe, ok, so the person you phone-called did not give an actual written rule. Good. You can double check (if you're skittish), on your city's website, and confirm through a key-word search that there is no specific prohibitions. And ..... in the future .... avoid such miss-lookie-lou kill-joys at that location.

 

[cudamark]

I'd ask them to show you where it's prohibited.

They can't just make up the rules, although they can interpret them.

I tried that approach one time and it took over a half hour of calling back and forth from the patrol car to headquarters before they came up with some obscure ordinance that prohibits anyone from "disturbing the grass, sod, plants, trees, or other flora in the city parks" It's in the section devoted to keeping people from taking the landscaping home to redo their own property. I know, it's silly, but that's the government for you. That was over 10 years ago and I haven't had a problem like that since. I did have another cop come by in the same park because of the same complaint and he just looked at what I was doing (probing and popping coins out through a tiny slit) and didn't have a problem with it. In fact, after watching me a while, seeing what I was finding, and the time it was taking me to recover the coins, asked my why I didn't just dig a plug! I could have kissed him but then I really would get a trip to jail!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I tried that approach one time and it took over a half hour of calling back and forth from the patrol car to headquarters before they came up with some obscure ordinance that prohibits anyone from "disturbing the grass, sod, plants, trees, or other flora in the city parks" It's in the section devoted to keeping people from taking the landscaping home to redo their own property. I know, it's silly, but that's the government for you. That was over 10 years ago and I haven't had a problem like that since.....

Mark, yes, this has been the effect of persons ........ who are even *careful* to word their question carefully, when they go talk to city hall (or ..... as in your case .... when a lookie-lou gripes): They carefully phrase the question: "Is there anything that prohibits metal detectors?" (thinking this puts the burden of proof on the desk-jockey, to produce such an actual written rule from muni code). But yes, it can back-fire, and even when there's NOT a "specific" rule, odd responses have often come, like you got. Eg.: disturbing earthworms, the dreaded "alteration" verbage (even though we'll leave no trace, so technically, we should not run afoul of). And even verbage that forbids "collecting". Collecting verbage was put in eons ago, to forbid someone from thinking they can back up their truck to the park, to collect all the tanbark, or roses or whatever, for use in their own garden back home. But ....... doh .... if you ask enough bureaucrats, sure, someone can figure that can apply to a single coin.

So this is why I say to look up rules for oneself, and if there's not a specific rule, specifically saying "metal detecting", then presto, it's silent on the subject.