Post By treasurehound
Post By NOLA_Ken
Oct 24, 2012, 08:06 AM
Garrett vs. White's
Before you guys dump 50 gallon trash cans on me, please hear me out. And just one preface, but an important one to please keep in mind: I have never ONCE sold a coin I've found in the practice of MDing. Just want to put that out there so you know I'm not just a "loot wh*re" trying to maximize my coin intake. I get all the silver coinage I need from roll hunting and two family members running separate coin shops.
I keep bouncing back and forth between keeping my Garrett AT Pro, and ditching it for a White's. I had my wife bury 7 different silver coins along with a bunch of metal trash in the back yard and I found every single one of the coins (and of course the trash) with the AT. But when I go hunting with my MD club buddies who all carry White's, they run circles around my finds (Me: "Hey cool, a gold eagle button", Them: "Hey cool, $50,000 worth of coins and jewelry"). A friend of mine purposely followed a path I just went over as a joke saying, "I bet I find a button!". Well, he didn't find a button. He found a seated dime!!!. What the heck? And every single person I hunt with and/or know from our area club uses a White's as well. Why am I finding silver coins at home, buried 6 inches and deeper (and I did not watch where she buried them) yet missing the hot ticket items out in the field?
And this same field mind you, I'm literally finding miniscule crap like....A STAPLE!! (not a joke, I found one, single, unused, severely rusted staple at about 4"). Buddy says to me, "If you're finding stuff as small as staples, you should be finding the coins and relics too". This is coming from the same guy who, when they emptied our city lake this spring, found over 300 silver and gold rings in......wait for it.......ONE DAY!!! Oh, and a nickel-plated derringer too.....sigh. He's coming up on 40 years of metal detecting, so needless to say I respect what he says about the staple comment.
And as far as the coil cord issue: I've tried every configuration conceivable. From plain old tight wrapping all the way up, to straight up the pipe with Velcro straps. I find zero change in performance.
But....why no coins? I can go to every single kiddie park in town and I swear, if there was enough of it, I'd be a millionaire off the clad I've found. But....not one silver coin since I've purchased the unit. On the jewelry side, I've found four 14k gold items and countless .925 silver stuff. But....no silver coins. I've been a coin collector since I could use the potty all by myself (which I think was sometime last fall). In 100% honesty, I would trade every single piece of jewelry (well, maybe not the ring I sold for $700) for their weight in silver/rare coins.
I've heard soooooo much trash talking about quite honestly the entire line of Garrett machines (minus the pinpointer...which is priceless...to me at least). But then I watch 50 videos of fellas using an AT Pro and finding heaps of silver change. What gives?
I know the first thing a lot of guys are going to be inclined to say is "operator error" or "Garretts suck" but I know my machine, and I've seen some spectacular finds with all different Garrett machines.
And to add to my dilema: Were headed to the "family land" for two weeks for Thanksgiving. This land is completely virgin to MDing and I'm being completely honest here when I say (and honestly don't give a squirt if you don't believe me) that my wife's grandfather is a direct blood line relative of the James Boys' grandfather. This is well documented within the family. There are four areas on the family land of specific interest to me: the foundation/filled cellar of a shack that Frank would stay in while visiting, an area that both Frank and Jesse frequented (what I'm told) often while "passing through", the "James Graveyard" (that's the real name, and lots of James headstones from the 1800s, a few early 1900s), and more currently, the house where the "crazy uncle" lived (come on, every family's got that "crazy uncle" no one wants to talk to during family reunions...). He didn't trust banks, and buried every cent he had in his back yard (these "yards" are rather large fields...not your average fenced in city yard)....only to wind up offing himself and not telling anyone where he left his life savings.
SO...as you can see, I am faced with (what I consider to be) a rather time sensitive dilemma, in need of serious, tempered, non-biased, superior knowledge here. Keep the Garrett and bank on the silver coins found in the back yard? Or purchase and learn as much as I can about a White's (and what model in a ~$800-$900 budget?) before we leave? What to do...what to do....
Penny for your thoughts?
Oct 24, 2012, 09:13 AM
Ok I will start this going and I am sure others will join in. First the AT PRO is a great machine. Although I don't have one I do have friends that use them very successfully. You mentioned a few things that I need to address. The only silver coins you have found are the ones you buried? All machines will find silver coins no matter what model or manufacturer. Your coil just needs to go over them. Most silver will be deep and you must swing slower to find them. I have seen people swinging their coil so fast you think they were weed whacking and they complain they are not finding anything. Also the area you are hunting in must be old enough to have the silver. And just because it is old does not mean there will be silver there. I only coin hunt in sites older than 1940 and sometimes I only find wheats or indian heads but that is fine with me. You just don't know where the silver is going to be but the location must be old enough to have silver coins. All of the kiddie parks you say you hunted may not have been old enough to have anything but clad. Just because all of your friends are finding silver and they are using White's does not mean you need to get the same machine they are using. Also you say it is not operator error. How long have you had your AT PRO? Now I have been hunting for over 30 years and have only owned White's machines (only four machines in that time span) but I will never put down another machine. I know White's, Minelab, Fisher, Garrett and others all put out great machines but it takes time to learn which ever machine you use. My advice to you is keep your AT PRO and really learn it. Don't give up as it will find what ever you are looking for. And maybe do a little better research on the areas you are hunting. The silver is there. Your coil just needs to slowly go over it. I hope this helps. Keep swinging and before you know it you will find silver. Just a matter of time.
Oct 24, 2012, 02:47 PM
ROFL!!! Sooo true. Seen it a million times. That was a hilarious analogy!
Originally Posted by treasurehound
Oct 24, 2012, 02:48 PM
Last edited by fuzymunky; Oct 24, 2012 at 02:57 PM.
Oct 24, 2012, 03:00 PM
Ive only found 2 silver coins (this is my first season MDing). Both were reading as pull tabs. How many square nails have you dug that were reading as coins? Any machine will find the metal...its just up to you to go for it. If you get a solid pull tab signal at 2 inches and pass it by assuming its a tab for sure, guess what, you just past over a rare date mercury dime. Perhaps that can be considered operator error. Good luck and happy hunting on those family grounds.
Oct 24, 2012, 04:28 PM
I dont use the at pro i started this year with the ace 350 ...ive only found 1 decent place to hunt and pulled almost 40 silver out of it so far and over a dozen buffalo nickels ....the garrett i use picks up silver without problems at 6 inches anyhow but it also likes rusty beer cans,bottle caps....and about anything metal with rust ...ive trolled over this park so many times i wouldnt think there would be anything left but after the rain we have been getting i started digging some deep iffy targets and found some more wheats....ive been over those spots dozens of times and still theres coins deeper then i could get before...im no garrett fan it was my starter unit next year i will be moving on to something that doesnt like the bottle caps and rust im leaning twards a etrac untill i see something better
Im not crazy......my mother had me tested
Oct 25, 2012, 03:59 PM
I use the AT Pro haven't found any silver coins but have found lots of silver rings. I'm pretty sure the reason I haven't found silver coins cuz there aren't any in the area i'm searching. Try a different coil on your AT Pro and see if you still have the same results. I had to mess with my discrimination a bit to find the silver rings I did find.. Course I have only been detecting for 4 years so I'm still learning the ins and outs yet.
Oct 26, 2012, 09:02 AM
When the going gets wierd, the wierd turn pro....
Next time you go out with one of your buddies, ask them to call you over when they think they have a silver coin signal and run your coil over it. Then see what it is when they dig it. If it is a signal you would have passed on, you'll know not to pass on that sound anymore.
"That's me, on the beach side combing the sand, metal meter in my hand, sporting a pocket full of change"...... NOFX
Now in the process of posting my antique photo collection at : http://forgottonimages.tumblr.com/
Oct 26, 2012, 02:51 PM
Often, good targets are right next to trash. Any VDI on any metal detector can only give you the conductivity of what is there - multiple things next to each other will give mixed readings. In the last 5 years, I have mostly been looking for gold, and as a result, I am used to digging almost anything that makes noise. When I hunted for relics, I dug everything. I realize that this may not always be the most fun thing to do, but you never know what you are missing. I always dig up anything that reads pull tab, because its sometimes something of value (1 out of 500 times). I have followed people and found great targets in a place that other people detected only minutes before. I do pull up and throw away a lot of trash - that's ok with me. I suspect that at many sites, the easy to find stuff is long gone - practically any detector can find big silver close to the surface - whats left is well hidden.
There is likely nothing wrong with your detector. In my experience, the VDI screens on metal detectors are interesting, but not to be trusted too much.
Last edited by jmoller99; Oct 26, 2012 at 02:59 PM.
Whites GMT, Whites GM Vsat, Whites 5900, Gold Mountain King Cobra, Bounty Hunter 3300
Oct 26, 2012, 03:48 PM
Fuzy, here's what I would do to resolve the question of whether your Garrett isn't able to find the things (silver) that your buddies are finding:
Pick one of those Whites users, who typically tends to find silver. You know, like the type guy who can go to a pounded park or school in your area, and tends to be able to sniff out more silver coins. Go with him, and ask him to "flag" some un-dug signals, that he suspects might be silver (or even wheaties, as those are in the same strata/date range). Let him turn off his machine (so there's no cross-talk), and then YOU go over the signals he's pointed out. Try them with various settings. Try them with various angles of sweep. Try them with various sweep speeds and swaths, etc.... The point of this is, to see if you're hearing what they're showing you, or not. And if so, does whatever sound your getting sound any different from the clad and myriad of typical junk there. If you have to be honest, and say "I don't hear it" or "it sounds indistinguishable from junk that I would have passed", then either:
a) you're right, your Garrett is not measuring up or
b) you're not learned enough to be able to distinguish sounds you're supposed to be looking for.
Assuming the answer is B, then also do this: have him flag some signals he'd say were/are probably going to be non-silver coins. You know, like suspected shallow corroded zinc, or foil, or nail-falses, or all such things he would pass (if silver and old coins were your goal in junky turf). Conversely go over them, and try to discern the difference between those, and the silver/old coin signals he's showing you.
Only when you've seen/heard the signals side-by-side, will the "lights go on".
I had this experience when trying to transition to the Explorer from Whites. At first, everything sounded the same (like a flock of sick geese). I couldn't understand why people like the Explorer! I was about to ditch it, and go back to my whites. However, a proficient Exp. user took me to a park where he'd customarily been getting 5 to 10 silvers "at will", and lots and lots of wheaties, anytime he'd gone there. Once there, he quickly isolated suspected deep silver and wheatie signals for me to try with my Explorer. Conversely, I'd show him a few flagged signals, and he might tell me "zinc at 4" " etc... Once I heard a few of his fluty tones he was showing me, and hearing and seeing the way he swung, the tones he was trying to isolate, and could compare side-by-side with other not-so-good signals, all the sudden the "lights went on" and I too started finding silver. See? No amount of printed text instructions can EVER convey an actual in-field experience like that. The reason is: sounds can not be described in printed text. They have to be heard.
So if you have any proficient persons in your area, who find a lot of silver, ask them if they can take you along next time. It need not be a wickedly old site either (ie.: you're not asking them to give up their secret grounds). You know, like even a school that only dates to the '40s or '50s, just for practice/comparison sakes.
Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!
Oct 26, 2012, 03:50 PM
ah, I see that nola_ken gave about the same answer, in condensed form.
Metal detecting is my one worldy vice!
Oct 26, 2012, 04:13 PM
You have to use your ear and "listen" to your detector. What mode settings are you using on the AT Pro? standard, coin, pro-audio? I like pro-audio; deeper targets are softer, shallow ones louder. Are you ground balancing the machine properly? How good is your hearing? I have problems with one ear so I ditched the headphones that came with the AT Pro and got the adapter and a very good expensive set of phones (Gray Ghost) and like them much better.
My buddy and I hunt demo sites together. When I used my AT Pro on these sites I recovered well over 35 silver coins in about a month and a half. We also hunt with another buddy who has a Whites machine and he is outstanding with it. I have watched him pull silver after working a spot that I had covered and I have pulled silver from a spot which he had covered. Successfulsful hunting is placing the coil over a good target AND having confidence in your machine.
Sounds to me like you have good spots to hunt. I like the idea where you team up with one of the Whites users and swing your coil over a spot that they believe is a good target and compare results. Maybe even ask to swing one on a site all of you are hunting on before ending the day
Last edited by markincypress; Oct 26, 2012 at 04:18 PM.
Oct 26, 2012, 04:34 PM
Director-Search & Recovery Team of Oakland County.
Your AT PRO is not the fault of you not finding silver coins when you go with your buddies that use White's. You ever think some of these "buddies" bring coins with them so they can tell you they found them. Also the coils field goes down in roughly a cone or D shape and you said you are over lapping, but are you keeping the coil level on each sweep and not lifting it up on the ends of the sweep? Listen to Tom of CA....
(C) Sandman, 2005. All Rights Reserved.
"TIME IS THE ONLY THING YOU NEVER GET BACK, WHY WASTE IT SWINGING A DETECTOR THAT ISN'T UP TO THE TASK."
Oct 26, 2012, 07:54 PM
Don't feel bad, I have a whites XLT that I bought brand new this spring, I have put a ton of hours on it, and reading everything I can possibly find about it, yet I have only found 2 silver dimes out of about $200 in clad. Seems I can't find anything over 5 inches. Even with hot programs. I know I'm hunting great sites, and I know there is silver I'm missing. Kinda frustrating to say the least. Found some nice stuff, but dying to find silver coins! I guess I have to put more hours in. Question I have also is have been told to listen to faint signals, I have but, only dig signals that are repeatable ? Should I dig signals than aren't repeatable? Any input would help!
Oct 27, 2012, 02:00 PM
Do not forget me 24601
Personally I'd bribe a buddy to swap machines with you for a day. Or borrow one of your buddy's spare White's.
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