Cant stand a cheat!

[bzbadger]

Can't stand a cheat!

Assateague beach in MD has a no detecting policy from memorial day to labor day so today is usually a big rush to that beach. However for some time we have had a bunch of asshats that come from Baltimore and other places,lets say non-locals, who come in and camp spend the night and actually the night before the beach is open to law abiding detectorists go out in the dark and hunt the beach.

We arrived at 9am for the gates to open only to see people already on the beach detecting.no big deal because they opened the gates a few minutes early,however when we hit the beach there were holes every where. A large group scanning the sand came up with nothing but a few clad. 4 months with nobody hunting a well trafficked beach and nothing? Talk about some pissed off people. We knew it was those same asshats again. Seems we have too many posts about shows that incite ppl to become greedy hunters with no morals but here we already have that and been going on before any show on TV.
That's the stuff that makes me angry, people who feel it necessary to cheat, break the law just so they can get it before you do. I'd love to find one of these people and shove his detector where the sun don't shine, the more sand on it the better.
What do the officers say about it...we don't have the man power to patrol the beaches at night and the people know it. Just pathetic.

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

You always say if its not in the written rules then go for it...its in the written rules "closed from sunset to 9am". You can take your chances on anything and I do all the time but not when its a written rule.

Ok, you're right. To be in-keeping with what I've always said, you're right. If those are "the rules", then so be it. And the OP has every right to call the cops next year, once he stakes out the park (from a far-away vantage point, of course, since the beach is closed and he can't "be there").

Such was the case of a park near me, in my neighborhood. The park (as all our city parks in my city) have listed on the wooden sign "closed at sunset". Mind you, that was probably (realistically) written so that no one thinks they can camp overnight. Ie.: a reason to boot someone trying to homestead the place or being a nuisance. And thus, even though the signs say that, you can still walk through the sidewalk, from one-end to the other even (gasp) after dark.

Until one morning, my neighbor came out early in the morning to the park for his morning walk, only to see a bunch of beer bottles on the lawn. They'd been left by late night party kids. So he "made it his mission" to call the cops, from then-on-after. His rationale? The "park closes at sunset". Sounds reasonable enough. So he'd call the cops and make it his mission to be be a one-man "neighborhood watch" type of person. Believe me, he had a hard time getting the cops to put this on a high priority. He *might* get a cruiser to come by, as long as they weren't on some other duty. The all-time major infraction? a couple of high school kids necking under an oak tree after dark. Oh sure, I have no doubt he stopped any other late night beer parties.

 

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[bzbadger]

Ok Tom you said something to the affect that are there fences etc....well actually yes there are..miles of fences and wire that is there to keep the ponies in a protected area and also hung every few feet is a sign stating stay off the dunes, no trespassing and the law code that goes with it. Whoever it was that said I keep changing from post to post seriously? I think I've stayed right on it. Yes people come down and camp then sneak on the beach and hunt. I have added things on to this because ppl keep challenging the actual laws ,some have resorted to calling names like crybaby I mean how childish is this going to get. I never meant to write a damn book when I posted but since ppl can't seem to understand even when the rules are copied and pasted that the beach isn't open to the public until 9am I felt I had to write more then I'd get challenged and then I had to write more so on and so on. The core hasn't changed and I barely added anything and certainly nothing of suspect. I had 20 ppl from my club there do you ppl want affidavits from them? Honestly who really wants to post anything when you have your character called into question over something some jackass did. It's like being on trial with some of the comments made and questions. The commandant was spoken to today and they are investigating since state protected land was damaged and the detecting laws were broken but said because of cutbacks they aren't patrolling like they used to and criminals.are taking advantage. So by that statement they are saying laws were broken...there you have it.


Get your facts first, then distort them as you please-Mark Twain

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

bzbagder, then oddly, those people have apparently gone to great lengths to wait for the proper day (the day after labor day), so as to be in compliance with the law, right? Yet on the day after labor day, then they merely go break a different of the park's rules, and enter before the beach is open, eh?

Then this is kind of odd, when you think of it. Because if you think they are knowingly "breaking a rule" to have an unfair disadvantage over you ..... then why are they even waiting for the day after labor day, to begin with? Heck, if a person is going to break a rule (and as you say, it's a low enough park issue that no one's patrolling the park at night to make sure ... heaven forbid ... that anyone's out for a stroll....), then why do you think those same persons are simply there on other day's, from Memorial day to Labor day?

This makes me wonder if those persons are even aware that they're breaking a rule. Perhaps they interpret as others do here, that "open" and "closed" refer to other park accessories and functions (the bathrooms, the parking lot, etc...). Mind you, I'm no longer debating THAT set of semantics, I'm just saying that, once we accept the semantics that truly truly no one can be walking around there before 9am, then .... if those md'rs know that too, then why are they going through all the trouble to even wait till the day after labor day ? Seems to me if they know that's wrong, and they know that's so easy to do (ie.: no one cares or is there to see or care), then heck, why not just go during August as well?

Thus my hunch is they simply don't know this semantics. And if you tried to tell them, they probably didn't believe you, is my thought. You know, like just someone coming up with a case of sour grapes, so they give you lip service, without realizing your semantics are actually correct.

Oh, and in my question about fences, I wasn't referring to ones for animals, or to protect dunes, etc.... I was referring to ones to stop someone's walking north from, or south from, other beaches entities. HOWEVER I now see that this particular beach of yours sits solo from all other land masses (an off-shore barrier type beach), that sits alone. Ie.: you have to go east, off-shore, to even reach it, and going north or south simply puts you back in the water

 

[lookindown]

Ok Tom you said something to the affect that are there fences etc....well actually yes there are..miles of fences and wire that is there to keep the ponies in a protected area and also hung every few feet is a sign stating stay off the dunes, no trespassing and the law code that goes with it. Whoever it was that said I keep changing from post to post seriously? I think I've stayed right on it. Yes people come down and camp then sneak on the beach and hunt. I have added things on to this because ppl keep challenging the actual laws ,some have resorted to calling names like crybaby I mean how childish is this going to get. I never meant to write a damn book when I posted but since ppl can't seem to understand even when the rules are copied and pasted that the beach isn't open to the public until 9am I felt I had to write more then I'd get challenged and then I had to write more so on and so on. The core hasn't changed and I barely added anything and certainly nothing of suspect. I had 20 ppl from my club there do you ppl want affidavits from them? Honestly who really wants to post anything when you have your character called into question over something some jackass did. It's like being on trial with some of the comments made and questions. The commandant was spoken to today and they are investigating since state protected land was damaged and the detecting laws were broken but said because of cutbacks they aren't patrolling like they used to and criminals.are taking advantage. So by that statement they are saying laws were broken...there you have it.


Get your facts first, then distort them as you please-Mark Twain

They will change the rule to no detecting year round because of this...mark my word...with people saying detectorist caused the death of that pony, there will be no more detecting at this park.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

They will change the rule to no detecting year round because of this...mark my word...with people saying detectorist caused the death of that pony, there will be no more detecting at this park.

Lookindown, You know how I suggested to bz-badger that if this was such a big deal to him, that he can merely stake out the place next year, and blow the whistle on them. Right? And when I posted that, I was thinking the exact same thing you just said: if someone were to do that, you're exactly right: They would simply ban detecting, since junk like this would only put it on their radar as something that's a headache to deal with bickering over.

Even if the person calling the cops didn't make the issue of detecting to be the infraction (but rather, that someone is in the park while it's "closed", regardless of their particular activity), yet you know full well that detecting would become the focus, NOT the park hours, etc....

And you know what strikes me as odd in all this, is that whenever some md'rs hear the words "permit", or see rules "allowing" md'ing, they wax romantic and think that all those things are wonderful (afterall, it's hard to argue with specific language that "allows" md'ing, rather than simply being silent on the issue). Or "permits" conjurs up images of just being able to flash that baby, and people slink away embarassed for having questioned you. Right?

Yet as we can see in all this, that "allowances" only lead to limitations (certain seasons, or not with xx feet of a tree, or only with diggers not exceeding 3", blah blah blah). And "permits" are merely primed to be yanked in years to come as it merely means perpetual annual review, etc.... Thus it's MUCH better that rules are simply silent on the issue, and that it stays that way.

 

[lookindown]

Lookindown, You know how I suggested to bz-badger that if this was such a big deal to him, that he can merely stake out the place next year, and blow the whistle on them. Right? And when I posted that, I was thinking the exact same thing you just said: if someone were to do that, you're exactly right: They would simply ban detecting, since junk like this would only put it on their radar as something that's a headache to deal with bickering over.

Even if the person calling the cops didn't make the issue of detecting to be the infraction (but rather, that someone is in the park while it's "closed", regardless of their particular activity), yet you know full well that detecting would become the focus, NOT the park hours, etc....

And you know what strikes me as odd in all this, is that whenever some md'rs hear the words "permit", or see rules "allowing" md'ing, they wax romantic and think that all those things are wonderful (afterall, it's hard to argue with specific language that "allows" md'ing, rather than simply being silent on the issue). Or "permits" conjurs up images of just being able to flash that baby, and people slink away embarassed for having questioned you. Right?

Yet as we can see in all this, that "allowances" only lead to limitations (certain seasons, or not with xx feet of a tree, or only with diggers not exceeding 3", blah blah blah). And "permits" are merely primed to be yanked in years to come as it merely means perpetual annual review, etc.... Thus it's MUCH better that rules are simply silent on the issue, and that it stays that way.

I knew what you were talking about...I like the way you say something, without saying it...Im pretty good at reading between the lines. Permits are the beginning of the END.

 

[AC1955]

I am confused...the information I found for Assateague Beach in Maryland states that it is a National Seashore Beach (this is the one with the wild ponies). Metal detecting is PROHIBITED all the time on ALL National Seashore Beaches. From the National Parks website it states that the beach is open 24 hours per day, the visitor's center opens at 9:00 am. Camping is allowed in designated areas year-round. Is there a section of Assateague Beach that is not part of the National Seashore system?

Sorry for throwing more confusion into this thread, but seeing as how we can't hunt the National Seashore beaches on Cape Cod, I was just curious why the rules are different for Maryland/Virginia National Seashore beaches.

Anita

 

[Jason in Enid]

See how confusing the rules are! Yes, what I found was that there is a state beach next to the federal beach.

 

[cudamark]

The more I look into this situation, the more interesting it gets. A few observations I have: First, I still see nothing posted online that says the beach is off limits at any time of day....just that the parking lot, concessions, lifeguards, etc, have operating hours. "Access" to the beach could mean anything from paths to parking lots to gates. Maybe it's posted at the park or the rangers have some other copy? It would be nice if it was spelled out where you could access it before travelling down to the park. Second, I find it amazing that they don't seem to have a problem with you digging for clams but they do coins? WTF? What happens if you accidentally get a coin in your scoop along with a clam? Do you have to throw the coin back? . Third, there seems to be at least three governmental agencies that have some sort of jurisdiction here. That's bound to cause problems with conflicting rules and regs. I guess if you want "clarification" or a hard and fast enforceable rule so you don't feel cheated, you'll probably get one from somebody. As the saying goes, just be careful what you ask for because you just might get it. And it may not be the one you want!

 

[bzbadger]

Tom, Cuda and even Jason I agree with you on certain points and disagree on others. I think majority of the laws that restrict us from detecting but allow others to damage areas is ridiculous and I hope that one day we as a group can stop bickering long enough to see who the enemy is and that's government entities getting too big for their britches and leading us around by the nose.
As far as the rules go I've stated it time and again. There are three law entities here and each have their own set of guide lines. The feds supercede the two other and the two others had been on the same page but that has changed since the main responsibility fell upon the rangers. The new staff this year absolutely bungled it but they're trying to fix their mistakes and everyone makes them so im giving slack.
Tom an answer to you question or theory on why they chose to break into the park at this particular time. Its not that this hasn't been done between memorial day and labor I was stating that since I had gone there the legal day and time only to find dozens and dozens of holes, trash left in or next to the hole, the fences knocked down, the cable cut the electric wire cut and people's footprints going through protected off limit bird sanctuary areas is why I said I hate cheaters. Tom I fully agree with you on quite few things regarding the law except when you get into stuff like this where there's protected wildlife etc and that's when you should make an effort to find out what laws are in effect. Like you I do not think going and asking for trouble is helping ourselves out however certain situations require decent amount of knowledge to keep out tush out of jail. The ppl who went so far as to damage property knew ahead of time the laws hence them causing the damage and going at night...it's of Sherlock Holmes 101. This whole thing affected more than just me having a sucky day detecting, it caused serious damage and made the effort of a lot of law abiding ppl futile because of greedy cheaters.

Get your facts first, then distort them as you please-Mark Twain

 

[BC1969]

Think of the digging for clams versus coins in a simple train of thought, digging up a clam, clam goes in bucket, digging for a coin, may turn up pieces of cans, glass, rusty whatever's, which may or may not get picked up.
I know I would not like to slice my feet up when at the beach.
That's the difference.

Mike

 

[maipenrai]

But what if you dig up these same items, when digging clams, (glass, rusty junk), do the clam diggers take the trash home? I think not!

 

[Sandman]

Boo Hoo, someone bent the rules, get over it and join them next year.

 

[RobRieman]

I buy my clams with the coins I find.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Boo Hoo, someone bent the rules, get over it and join them next year. View attachment 861978

Tsk tsk, sandman, how could you SAY such a thing. (obviously, as seen in the results, "arrest is imminent" and every official there cares afterall !). Sheesk, and we thought you were an upstanding young man. In fact, they were saving you a place right next to mother Teresa at the pearly gates. But now ...... no go.

 

[lookindown]

Boo Hoo, someone bent the rules, get over it and join them next year. View attachment 861978

I don't think there is going to be a next year for detectorist there...with all the complaining, they are looking into it and guess what the solution is going to be.

 

[Ism]

View attachment 861978

Wow, an emoticon I actually like!

 

[cudamark]

Wow, an emoticon I actually like!

Me too! Now if we can just add the politician of our choice on the receiving end.......perfection!

 

[bzbadger]

Great emoticon. Just to clarify the only time/place I have "complained" was here and I was just bringing it up trying to show you guys what ppl will go to just to get at something they want and have not a care in the world how they do it. As far as actual complaints that would bring about change well that would come from the ppl who found the dead pony and the destroyed property which from what I heard was the DNR, rangers and a father with his 4-6 year old son who went out to metal detect and came across the scene, they are the ones who told us and we then approached the rangers. We are only trying to conserve what we think to be something worth saving for future generations to enjoy without a buttload of restrictions and that we have for 29 years as of this October used as a huge get together for the members of the club and their families. I don't think that is too much to ask for. Am I going to stake out a place for something like this, that is absurd and close to insane, why would I waste my time over this and honestly this whole freaking thread has wasted my time as I try to explain what happened and why we shouldn't follow in the footsteps of criminals which some of you put it so mildly as confused people who thought the time should be 12:01am or that the beach is open here and there for anyone and everyone and only one and someone---see how stupid it looks well that's what I have seen constantly except for some like lookindown and a few others who get what I mean like the ones who have been PMing me because they don't want to get involved in this headache and don't want to have to get into arguments or whatever from the others who love to get into them, you know who you are. As far as this thread I am done with it, take it and do as you will, I stated facts and you chose not to listen oh well some heads are thicker than others. I have no beef with anyone here its just opinions and no need for anyone to get upset or hold stupid grudges.