Are New Metal Detectors Really any better than the old ones

[jhen999]

I was wondering what you really think about the new metal detectors of today compared to the older ones of years gone by. I have used the old Whites 5000D of the 1980,s and the Whites Classic 3 of the 1990,s and have recently bought a x-terra 705 and to be honest with you I don't fined the new one any better than an old ones, the newer ones have a lot of bells and whistles and they are a lot lighter to swing, but as far as doing any more than the older models I just don't see it, I was digging up coins back in the 1980,s 6" to 8" just the same as I do today...but really all I can see is the new models are lighter and a lot more hard to learn, I am just talking about machines that cost under $1000....I have never used the higher end models so I cant talk about what they can or can not do.

 

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[Hot zone]

Last week at the park another guy showed me a ring he had just found in an area I had detected several times with my minlab... He was using a Garrett and dug a good sounding high iron below foil target and out pops a ladies gold ruby ring that was on edge... Was the ID necessary or even helpful... The only reason he dug it is because the area was nearly devoid of any good targets whatsoever... He had been searching for over an hour and found 3 zinc penny's a sack of trash and a gold ring... Given that I had recovered hundreds of pulltabs and bent nails from this park and have yet to find a gold ring, I felt real unlucky to have put my faith in VDI machine...

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

Hot-zone, I don't think that persons ability to find a gold ring with a lesser or older machine is any reflection of superiority of that machine, over your machine. It sounds to me like he just simply went and dug a bunch of low conductor iffy sounds, and.... presto, you'll eventually find a gold ring.

I mean, when you think of it, most parks are FULL of shallow low conductors, right? So needing or having a machine "better at low conductor gold" is HARDLY an issue or goal, now is it ? Heck, all you need to do is take ANY of the power house deep-seeker machines (not necessarily known for their ability at dainty low conductors), and simply lower the disc. down. I can think of parks where I can dig hundreds of low conductors, free-for-the-choosing. Just go to any blighted inner city park, and .... dig enough foil wads and corroded shallow zinc, and eventually you'll find a gold ring. [or, simply go to a swimming beach, and make the odds and efforts much more conducive, doh!)

 

[el padron]

There is a lot of very expensive trash out there .
Metal detecting is far more popular now than at any time in the past, so the manufacturers are selling perception over technology or quality.
Today the average person that spends $2500 for a new Metal Detector is expecting to find a toned muscular body, new 22 year old girlfreind and "riches beyond their wildest dreams" in the same box as what they actually ordered.
The basic capacities have improved somewhat but not nearly in accordance with how high current prices have gotten.
The main difference given the time value of money, is that the actual cost of the current machines is astronomically higher.
I have had the opportunity to field test several new flagship machines and have recently purchased a modern pulse induction unit.
It works very well, but it's true beauty lies in how well it is constructed.


Almost all bellwether machines made today are sold by inexperienced sales people that steer their customers to the most profitable models and hype features most users will never actually use on machines comprised out of complete trash, (The absolute cheapest materials known to man, that will still hold the basic components together).

 

[rainyday101]

Yep, the NSA has made manufacturers equip all metal detectors with hidden GPS units that transmit your co-ordinates to a government satellite anytime you dig. Worse yet they are in bed with the IRS so they track any sales of goodies we find and make us pay taxes on them. Yep, I smell conspiracy!

ah c'mon rainy-day101, you're no fun ! It's much more fun to believe in conspiracies, and how big evil government has all sorts of secrets they're keeping from us, technology that only "they" have, etc... haha

 

[Hot zone]

Hot-zone, I don't think that persons ability to find a gold ring with a lesser or older machine is any reflection of superiority of that machine, over your machine. It sounds to me like he just simply went and dug a bunch of low conductor iffy sounds, and.... presto, you'll eventually find a gold ring.

I mean, when you think of it, most parks are FULL of shallow low conductors, right? So needing or having a machine "better at low conductor gold" is HARDLY an issue or goal, now is it ? Heck, all you need to do is take ANY of the power house deep-seeker machines (not necessarily known for their ability at dainty low conductors), and simply lower the disc. down. I can think of parks where I can dig hundreds of low conductors, free-for-the-choosing. Just go to any blighted inner city park, and .... dig enough foil wads and corroded shallow zinc, and eventually you'll find a gold ring. [or, simply go to a swimming beach, and make the odds and efforts much more conducive, doh!)

ok,you made my point better than I... All the disc bells whistles ID are really not needed... I can lower the disc on my Tejon, a good low conductor machine or use my Tigershark at the lake, both old school technology... I bought into the hype with minelab, read the book, practiced hundreds of hours and frankly I am not impressed...

 

[rainyday101]

If that were true, Minelab (an Australian company) Deus (a French company) and the Chinese would be kicking American company machine's butt. That's not happening....at least with anything that the FCC would have power over. With today's battery technology, I don't think battery size or weight is the limiting factor, I believe it's just that the signal gets too overpowering at those levels to receive a signal back that would make any sense. My friends hotrod machine had enough power to effect the electronics inside his neighbors house, but the return signal was unusable regardless of the way he tried to filter it. Absolutely anything would set it off, whether there was a target there or not. It was like using a two box detector inside a motorhome. Speaking of which, those have plenty of transmit power and go incredibly deep, but they can't pick up something the size of a coin....well maybe they'll pick up a silver dollar, I haven't tried it! Transmit power isn't everything.

Battery power is a limiting factor because of the need to draw higher current and have higher voltage to make noticeable gains in transmit power. You would either tow a battery cart or need a newer battery that had a higher current capacity or you would be changing batteries real often. Dave Johnson has said exactly what you are saying about having all that transmit power. Think of hunting in a trashy area with a real high power output. The transmit signal would create big EMI fields on anything it induced eddy current into. This would mask good targets and the whole ground would appear as one big target. A lot of people on the forum have mentioned that they throttle back in trashy areas (turn the sens. down) and this sounds like a good idea. I have to try it because I am guilty of turning the sens. up as high as I can. You are right, transmit power isn't everything, but if you have it, you can always throttle it back.

 

[jhen999]

I am just not sure the $1000 detectors of today are any better than the $350 machines of yesterday, I like the older machines because there easy to use...but don't get me wrong, I like all the new bells and whistles after you get to know how all that stuff works...but as far as finding you more goodies...I think there about the same...I think its all about swing it in the right place at the right time...

 

[dirtscratcher]

ok,you made my point better than I... All the disc bells whistles ID are really not needed... I can lower the disc on my Tejon, a good low conductor machine or use my Tigershark at the lake, both old school technology... I bought into the hype with minelab, read the book, practiced hundreds of hours and frankly I am not impressed...

So your minelab beeps on a gold ring and you do not dig and its the detectors fault? Or are you saying your minelab will not beep on a gold ring?

 

[dirtscratcher]

There is a lot of very expensive trash out there .
Metal detecting is far more popular now than at any time in the past, so the manufacturers are selling perception over technology or quality.
Today the average person that spends $2500 for a new Metal Detector is expecting to find a toned muscular body, new 22 year old girlfreind and "riches beyond their wildest dreams" in the same box as what they actually ordered.
The basic capacities have improved somewhat but not nearly in accordance with how high current prices have gotten.
The main difference given the time value of money, is that the actual cost of the current machines is astronomically higher.
I have had the opportunity to field test several new flagship machines and have recently purchased a modern pulse induction unit.
It works very well, but it's true beauty lies in how well it is constructed.


Almost all bellwether machines made today are sold by inexperienced sales people that steer their customers to the most profitable models and hype features most users will never actually use on machines comprised out of complete trash, (The absolute cheapest materials known to man, that will still hold the basic components together).

I've seen you say this about riches beyond your wildest dreams several times, do you really believe that is why everyone is detecting?

 

[Hot zone]

So your minelab beeps on a gold ring and you do not dig and its the detectors fault? Or are you saying your minelab will not beep on a gold ring?

it beeps on my ring, my wife's ring... I was making a point that the ring I may have missed was below foil in conductivity... So I had discriminated it out as trash... In the mean time I purposely dug what I was sure were pull tabs, hoping for a gold ring...my Tejon discriminates nearly as well, but with its silent search and one tone response it is so much more pleasurable to use... If the minelab is deeper, that has not been demonstrated either...

 

[el padron]

I've seen you say this about riches beyond your wildest dreams several times, do you really believe that is why everyone is detecting?

This is what I think:


I think one out of 100 treasure hunters that primarily use metal detectors as their primary tool have a unique gift and intuition that when combined with hundreds and hundreds of hours both searching and doing primary research, find absolutely amazing things.
These people are not content when they are doing anything else, and anything else they do is in preparation for their next hunt.


I think another 5% that may not necessarily have an innate ability to find treasure still have enough passion to also find some really good stuff. these people are also having the time of their lives and often have an encyclopedic knowledge of the value of things such as relics and obscure coinage


20% are working-class people that love swinging a detector in their spare time. They are up on the latest technology enjoy doing research and they have a very good idea of where to look for items that have value


50% enjoy metal detecting in their spare time, and also do it for exercise. They often find nothing more than three dollars worth of modern change in a five hour hunt but they still feel happy to be doing what they are doing.
The same people occasionally find something of relative value like a small gold ring or maybe a moderately valuable relic .
These are independent proud people who will never admit in 1 million years that absolutely all things considered they got ripped off when they bought their detector, and its their god-given right not to think so.


23% use their machine twice, and then rush to sell it on eBay hoping to God they can get 70 or 80% of what they paid for it, because they really need the money to pay the rent, and the pawn shop offered them $40 for it

 

[dirtscratcher]

it beeps on my ring, my wife's ring... I was making a point that the ring I may have missed was below foil in conductivity... So I had discriminated it out as trash... In the mean time I purposely dug what I was sure were pull tabs, hoping for a gold ring...my Tejon discriminates nearly as well, but with its silent search and one tone response it is so much more pleasurable to use... If the minelab is deeper, that has not been demonstrated either...

So you set it up where it discs out rings and it is still the detectors fault. If you were to run your tejon accepting anything from foil and above and dig it all in parks around here you would be ran off by the police. If your minelab beeps on a gold ring and your not digging gold it is on you.

 

[dirtscratcher]

it beeps on my ring, my wife's ring... I was making a point that the ring I may have missed was below foil in conductivity... So I had discriminated it out as trash... In the mean time I purposely dug what I was sure were pull tabs, hoping for a gold ring...my Tejon discriminates nearly as well, but with its silent search and one tone response it is so much more pleasurable to use... If the minelab is deeper, that has not been demonstrated either...

So you set it up where it discs out rings and it is still the detectors fault. If you really want you could run you minelab completely open on disc and only dig foil through pulltabs and ignore all those pesky coins and silver and concentrate on your gold. That is something your tesoro could never do.

 

[Jason in Enid]

it beeps on my ring, my wife's ring... I was making a point that the ring I may have missed was below foil in conductivity... So I had discriminated it out as trash... In the mean time I purposely dug what I was sure were pull tabs, hoping for a gold ring...my Tejon discriminates nearly as well, but with its silent search and one tone response it is so much more pleasurable to use... If the minelab is deeper, that has not been demonstrated either...

I am reminded of the saying "It's a poor workman who blames his tools"

 

[Hot zone]

So you set it up where it discs out rings and it is still the detectors fault. If you were to run your tejon accepting anything from foil and above and dig it all in parks around here you would be ran off by the police. If your minelab beeps on a gold ring and your not digging gold it is on you.

sure it was on me, my fault I bought it, the Tesoro would beep on it too...that's my point...all the bells and whistles don't make it a better detector... I hate the minelab ... I like Tesoro... If I need any more reason to get rid of the minelab, all I have to do is use it...sounds like a damn flute! I wanted it to be great after spending so much and getting xtra coils... Spent years with it... It's gotta go! But first I gotta send it off to get the ID screen repaired... Sure the damage was my fault too, can't blame minelab for not being durable!

 

[dirtscratcher]

sure it was on me, my fault I bought it, the Tesoro would beep on it too...that's my point...all the bells and whistles don't make it a better detector... I hate the minelab ... I like Tesoro... If I need any more reason to get rid of the minelab, all I have to do is use it...sounds like a damn flute! I wanted it to be great after spending so much and getting xtra coils... Spent years with it... It's gotta go! But first I gotta send it off to get the ID screen repaired... Sure the damage was my fault too, can't blame minelab for not being durable!

You are funny! Why did it take years to realize you did not like it?

 

[fella]

You are funny! Why did it take years to realize you did not like it?

Not everyone recovers from KoolAid poisoning at the same rate!

 

[Hot zone]

You are funny! Why did it take years to realize you did not like it?

good question... When ever it got to annoying to listen to, I would find quieter dirt... Then a couple years ago, I bought a Tesoro Tigershark and going to places I had given up on, were full of easy finds... Finally the Tejon with duel disc finds even more targets that I missed... After just a week on the Tejon and trying to use the Minelab , it took about 5 min. For me to be so annoyed I wanted to wrap it around a tree! Then I finally knew I had ODed on the koolaid!

 

[dirtscratcher]

Not everyone recovers from KoolAid poisoning at the same rate!

Your funny too! On another thread I see you complaining your finds did not improve when you bought your etrac and then admit you did not take time to learn it. So you go from a detector that you are used to and get a new one that you really never learn and your surprised? I'm not even defended minelab as for the last year and a half all I use is my t2. To blame any detector that you run to much disc or do not learn for your lack of finds is silly.

 

[fella]

So you go from a detector that you are used to and get a new one that you really never learn and your surprised?

Except for the umpteenth time my issues with the ET weren't with the performance (although it never showed brilliance right off the bat like other detectors I had have done). The R2D2 being gang raped by an ice-cream trucks sounds emitting from the speakers and the ungodly balance had something to do with it though. I've admitted time and time again, it's great machine. I great machine I hate.

For the OP…I'd put put my old tech (but new) CZ-3D up against any new digital detector out there and feel confident in hanging with if not smoking it! EASILY as deep as any ML (non PI) with as good or better disc.