Are New Metal Detectors Really any better than the old ones

[jhen999]

I was wondering what you really think about the new metal detectors of today compared to the older ones of years gone by. I have used the old Whites 5000D of the 1980,s and the Whites Classic 3 of the 1990,s and have recently bought a x-terra 705 and to be honest with you I don't fined the new one any better than an old ones, the newer ones have a lot of bells and whistles and they are a lot lighter to swing, but as far as doing any more than the older models I just don't see it, I was digging up coins back in the 1980,s 6" to 8" just the same as I do today...but really all I can see is the new models are lighter and a lot more hard to learn, I am just talking about machines that cost under $1000....I have never used the higher end models so I cant talk about what they can or can not do.

 

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[airscapes]

I am new to this hobby, but I have read more than one post in the past 6 months with the same conclusion. Some of the things other have written are .. Depth has not improved much and may be do to FCC rules. However, weight, VDI, discrimination, speed of recovery and coils have all improved.

 

[Fletch88]

Weight and battery life are the biggest improvements. A lot of the bells and whistles are nice and can improve find rates, but not necessary to detect.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

jhen999, if that 5000D is the series I (as opposed to the series II), then you should see LOTS of improvements. The 5000 series I was a vlf/tr. A dinasour by today's standards. The series II was a motion machine, and *may* be competitive/usable in some of today's environs (was a good wet salt beach machine, for instance). Still though, the sweep speed got slowed way down, the depth increased, etc... on today's machines.

 

[RobRieman]

I have a 5000/D that I bought new and only keep it because it was my first detector. The price I paid for it new is above $1000 in today's money. As far as the difference in a performance comparison with today's machines..... Wow. I may use it to prop my V3i up out of the mud but that's about it.

 

[cudamark]

With my E-trac, I find it goes a bit deeper than my older Whites but the real improvement is the stability in bad or mineralized ground. Also, it's better at finding a good target next to a junk one. My White's was a bit better on non-ferrous target I.D. For example, the target I.D. on a copper cent and clad dime are virtually the same on the E-trac. In some cases the cent even read higher than the dime. With my White's, I could not only tell a dime from a cent, but, I could tell a wheat from a memorial. To me, that isn't all that important as I'm going to dig any of those numbers anyway but it's interesting to note.

 

[topdogintampa]

I am new to this hobby, but I have read more than one post in the past 6 months with the same conclusion. Some of the things other have written are .. Depth has not improved much and may be do to FCC rules. However, and coils weight, VDI, discrimination, speed of recovery have all improved.

I agree with you, once you are handcuffed by the FCC, then the focus was moved. Now after weight, VDI, discrimination, speed of recovery, manufac's have to start looking at what would appease the younger market as you can't pry a loved MD from a dead/older/proven MD hands...touch screens (so they think it's as easy as Facebooking etc. on a smartphone), cool colors and ease of use for a beginning detector so to not to disegage them with a big learning curve. Receipe for market sales anyway imo...They have to expand to the general public now as everyone in that 20+ yo niche market is tryed and true...they just trade inner circle for the most part.

 

[Rock Rock]

What do these FCC rules entail and when were they implemented ?

Thanks

 

[airscapes]

The FCC governs everythign that puts out a electromagnetic or other type frequency.. FM AM CB Microwave TV cellphone, router, Electric motor.. look on just about anything electrical and your will find a sticker that says it complies with FCC bla bla bal.... there are a boat load of rules and the are not easy for a human to read or understand. They have to do with interference with other devices and human exposure. Think about it, if the manufactures could, wouldn't they stick a 24v battery pack on a MD and crank up the output to go deeper? They have to meet requirements, what those are I do not know but I am sure if you have a lot of time to burn, you could find it on the FCC site..

See photo.. if a mouse has to comply don't you think a big old MD would to!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

You guys: This notion that government regulations about power out-puts, signals, strengths, frequencies, etc.... are somehow limiting detectors depth and performance, is an old wives tale.

The notion that there can be tweeks or designs to detectors that would give 2x the depth, etc.... "if only it weren't for FCC regulations", is hog-wash. It's been debunked. Any "brick-wall" hit on depth technology has nothing to do with big evil government. We've simply hit a law-of-physics maximum on what can get through XX inches of ground, and return to our coil/machine with useable info.

Sorry to be a kill-joy on the conspiracy theories.

 

[cudamark]

I agree, I knew a guy who custom "hotrodded" a detector and it became too unstable to use no matter what he did for adjustments.

 

[Rock Rock]

You guys: This notion that government regulations about power out-puts, signals, strengths, frequencies, etc.... are somehow limiting detectors depth and performance, is an old wives tale.

The notion that there can be tweeks or designs to detectors that would give 2x the depth, etc.... "if only it weren't for FCC regulations", is hog-wash. It's been debunked. Any "brick-wall" hit on depth technology has nothing to do with big evil government. We've simply hit a law-of-physics maximum on what can get through XX inches of ground, and return to our coil/machine with useable info.

Sorry to be a kill-joy on the conspiracy theories.

If we were able to increase the depth 10 x or so and it worked with no problems, the government will be all over it with new regulations like white on rice . Then they would use the technology for themselves

 

[RobRieman]

The reason it hasn't been done is that it can't be done with today's technology. The government and the FCC have nothing to do with it.

 

[Jason in Enid]

I was wondering what you really think about the new metal detectors of today compared to the older ones of years gone by. I have used the old Whites 5000D of the 1980,s and the Whites Classic 3 of the 1990,s and have recently bought a x-terra 705 and to be honest with you I don't fined the new one any better than an old ones, the newer ones have a lot of bells and whistles and they are a lot lighter to swing, but as far as doing any more than the older models I just don't see it, I was digging up coins back in the 1980,s 6" to 8" just the same as I do today...but really all I can see is the new models are lighter and a lot more hard to learn, I am just talking about machines that cost under $1000....I have never used the higher end models so I cant talk about what they can or can not do.

Old machines are far better than the new ones. EVERYONE needs to dump any detector made in the last decade and just use older detectors.

 

[Rock Rock]

Old machines are far better than the new ones. EVERYONE needs to dump any detector made in the last decade and just use older detectors.

So should I keep my Garrett Grand Master Hunter CX 2 or sell it ?

 

[RobRieman]

Old machines are far better than the new ones. EVERYONE needs to dump any detector made in the last decade and just use older detectors.

Yes! Donate all your new detectors to us and only use your 30 year old machines! I will start a thread with my address for your shipping info and I will distribute the crappy new technology to all the users who bought into the hype!

 

[rainyday101]

You guys: This notion that government regulations about power out-puts, signals, strengths, frequencies, etc.... are somehow limiting detectors depth and performance, is an old wives tale.

The notion that there can be tweeks or designs to detectors that would give 2x the depth, etc.... "if only it weren't for FCC regulations", is hog-wash. It's been debunked. Any "brick-wall" hit on depth technology has nothing to do with big evil government. We've simply hit a law-of-physics maximum on what can get through XX inches of ground, and return to our coil/machine with useable info.

Sorry to be a kill-joy on the conspiracy theories.

Tom is right the FCC limits are BS. You can do a google search on interviews with Dave Johnson and read it right from him. The laws of physics are the stopping point. Increasing power is not a linear function. To get a small increase in power you have to drastically increase battery voltage or/and current. It can be done, but will be towing a battery cart behind you. It's been a few years (okay lots of years) but as I recall the transmitted power follows a logarithmic curve and should be looked at in decibels. If you are a HAM operator you know exactly what I am talking about. Now if and only if my memory is correct, doubling the power would be accomplished by quadrupling the current or voltage. Current battery technology just does not allow for this without carrying a cart load of batteries.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

ah c'mon rainy-day101, you're no fun ! It's much more fun to believe in conspiracies, and how big evil government has all sorts of secrets they're keeping from us, technology that only "they" have, etc... haha

 

[Fletch88]

You know "lucifer"did it all since 08'. He's. the reason we can't detect down to 10 feet with a 3D image of what's down there, I just know it's true I heard it on Fox News!

 

[cudamark]

If we were able to increase the depth 10 x or so and it worked with no problems, the government will be all over it with new regulations like white on rice . Then they would use the technology for themselves

If that were true, Minelab (an Australian company) Deus (a French company) and the Chinese would be kicking American company machine's butt. That's not happening....at least with anything that the FCC would have power over. With today's battery technology, I don't think battery size or weight is the limiting factor, I believe it's just that the signal gets too overpowering at those levels to receive a signal back that would make any sense. My friends hotrod machine had enough power to effect the electronics inside his neighbors house, but the return signal was unusable regardless of the way he tried to filter it. Absolutely anything would set it off, whether there was a target there or not. It was like using a two box detector inside a motorhome. Speaking of which, those have plenty of transmit power and go incredibly deep, but they can't pick up something the size of a coin....well maybe they'll pick up a silver dollar, I haven't tried it! Transmit power isn't everything.