Coil follow up question, long post, veteran opinions wanted

[fueller]

I posted the following long message into the wrong forum. Sorry. It belongs in Metal Detecting.........


Hello again everyone. I posed the coil size question last night and would like to say thanks for all the responses. They have given me some points and ideas to mull over. I'm following that question up with a few more, I hope some of the veteran hunters here will wade through this and hopefully understand what I'm trying to get my mind around.
First, I'm using a Minelab Advantage. I did some homework this year when I finally decided to buy a m.d. and that's what I ended up with. No use second guessing myself, I could have bought used or tried another maker or 100 different things but I got the Advantage because it seemed like that was one of the best machines I could buy new for the price. In 3 months I've almost worn the hand grip off, so it has seen good use and it's introduced me into the world of metal detecting and I've really enjoyed it. There have been ups and downs and days when I wanted to throw it in the trash and days when I hoped the sun could somehow stay up a few more hours so I could keep detecting and I've found a whole host of items and would not go back and do anything differently up to this point. However, in some ways I'm starting to get annoyed that I'm not finding more of the kinds of coins I really want to find. Buffalo nickels and Mercury dimes and silver quarters, all these have eluded me. I've found a handful of wheat backs, and 6 Roosies, and several dozen very old bullets and a Missouri tax token, a dog tag, rings, keys, garden tools, carriage wheels, pewter roosters, birds, toys, watches, locks, and on and on. Oh, and last week, (see an earlier post) I found the best yet, a holed 1878 seated dime at about 6 or 7 or 8 inches (very weak signal, the kind I'm currently trying to find instead of the loud bleeps of close to the surface clad) and a bucket load of clad. Your probably wondering where I'm going with this, so I'll now try and get back on track with the question, but I put in the above to show that I've really given a lot of time to this hobby. I would think that by now I should have found, with the one exception of the dime, many more older coins. Mercury dimes and silver quarters and such. So, here is the question. I know the posters here are generally careful to not bash specific brands, and I'm not looking for an opinion on one brand vs. another but I'm curious how a well known brand detector (Fisher, Minelab, Garrett, Whites, take your pick) actually makes the different models they sell as related to their price point. In my case, I bought the Minelab #3 model. The Advantage. It's about $300 dollars. Now, instead of buying the upgrade coil (the 10" that would replace the 8") as I was going to do, at a cost of around $150. (or half the cost of the detector) I have decided it might be wise to keep what I have for a year (it's almost winter anyway) and upgrade the detector. For the sake of this post I'll stick with Minelab products, but you could replace that line with any other, they all have low end, middle, and high end models. Next year I can replace the detector with the Sov. elite for about $700 or I could go for their best and get the Explorer for around $1100. Options aside, what is it about a metal detector that dictates the depth range. All these models run on AAA batts. so is it just a matter of soldering in the correct resistor at the factory? If the coil is the same size and make, what is it that makes one detector reach 7" and another 12"? It seems to me that the power output of the detector must be set or governed by a resistor and that if you changed that you would change the possible depth. I wonder if my coil is sent something like an 8 volt signal, and the more expensive model might get 9 volts and the explorer 10 (or whatever it works out at). Am I on the right track here? I know it's not magic, and there has to be something that dictates the depth achieved on a given model.
I realize that it's pointless reading advertisements because they all claim the best depth. Advantage ads claim awesome depth for that class of detector, and I've heard the same from other sources but I'm trying to figure out what that really means when compared to a more expensive model. Does the Advantage stack up as a toy when compared with the Sov. elite or Explorer, or can it hold it's own and if so to what extent? I'm curious what I really would be buying by laying out $600-$1100 dollars (a fair amount of money in my world) next year instead of $150 for a bigger coil now. Sorry if this is post is overly lengthy, and I hope some of you can make sense of it. I really would like some well thought out replies, it would help me, and there might be others here with similar questions.

 

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Well, I hope 18 years qualifies me as a veteran, as I know some have been d'ting for 30+ years(but I do put 40 hrs a week in). Anyway, I will tell you some of my experiences. On my 12th B-day I got a Radio Shack detector. 2 weeks later I wrapped it around a tree. Anyone out there about to buy a Radio Shack- DON'T! Shortly after I saved up and bought a $300 Whites Liberty II and used it for a few years. It found me lots and went up 6 inches max. I then up-graded to a Whites Classic III, which is the sames as today's Classic ID except without a screen. I bought it new in 1990 for $400. Found lots and it went up to 8 inches deep max.
In 1995, I bought for $700(with tax) a Fisher 1266X and it's still the only one I use today. I have found so much, at such great depths that I still can't believe it and have no desire to buy a new machine (except a new water machine). I am not a Fisher promoter, as I don't care for my 1280x water machine. WARNING! The following material may not be suitable for all detector users. Viewer discretion is advised. In the last 2 years I have gone head to head with a few veterans who use different $1500 machines.
On air tests, my $700 machine blew away the fancy talking Garrett, the XLT, and are you ready......the DFX! They were all using 10 inch coils to my 8 inch coil. I have heard from friends that the Minelab goes deep and I believe it. I am wanting to buy an Excalibur for the water. I think that you will make a good choice buying the Sovereign Elite as the Explorer takes alot of figuring out. My feeling is that it will go just as deep as the Explorer.
I hope I didn't offend anyone, but I am telling the truth. Maybe I knew my machine better than the others and that's why I beat them in the air test.
My point through all of this is: After you weed through all of the advertising, you will find that middle price range detectors may out- perform some of the "Top of the line" $1500 machines.
Good Luck. Dave.

 

[Digger]

Good questions! Let me tell you my experience with makes, models and coils.

I have been swinging a detector for near 30 years now. I have watched them(detectors) go through many advancements, from BFO(beat frequency Oscillator) which was what I started with, through the first TR's, LF's, VLF's, TRD's, VLFD's, TID's to the newest advanced computer detectors. I have also tried my share of different brand name units.

First, I believe brand name does make a difference. Not that one name is so much better than the other, but that sticking to a brand name seems to give better odds of satisfaction if you don't know what to look for. Don't get me wrong they all have their lemons, the brand names just have fewer.

COILS: Yes they are important, and while bigger = deeper, bigger is not always better. Choosing the right coil for the right job in most cases = more success. Success being measured in better finds, not necessarily more finds. Going from the standard 8" to a 10" hothead turned what was believed to be a cleaned out city park, to a coin shooters dream spot for 2 years worth of hunting. This brings us to what I see as possibly your lack of "finding the good stuff" on a regular bases.

One of the simplest laws of successful metal detecting is to know if it ain't there, your not going to find it. Sounds simple huh? well many seem to over look just how important it is. Research=Success plain and simple. Know what your looking for, and that what your looking for could be there. The better the chance that "What your looking for" is "Where your looking for it" the less luck and more skill plays a role in your success.

 

[coinshooter]

I agree with Digger. One point I was going to make is that it may be your detector, but chances are, you aren't in the right spots. There are tons of old maps, treasure magazines, books, etc. that talk about the right spots in your area (I'm sure), but your just need to find them doing library seaches, etc. I don't find many old coins, because my areas history shows that these areas are few and far between, but they are here and the folks in my club that concentrate on those areas, typically win our oldest coin catagory quite regularly.
I have a minelab sovereign xs-2a pro (a model that is a few years old now) and love it. You can buy one of these new right now for about $600.
One thing I really like about this detector is it's "turn on and go" learning curve. Believe me, if you buy an explorer, you will spend two years just trying to sort out all the bells and whistles of the display panel. If your up to it, that's great, but why make your detecting experience more complicated. I even took off the display on my detector and sold it on ebay. I do just fine with my ears and don't feel I need an idiot box to tell me what to dig. I owned a whites spectrum xlt for 5 yrs before I bought this machine and found a total of maybe 3 gold rings with it. It is not a turn on and go machine. Once again, the learning curve is high on this machine, because you have to fiddle with it for a great deal of time to get the programs set up the way you like them. There are many xlt programs on the internet, but they vary greatly with the different types of soil around this vast country.
Which brings me to my next point. Soil. This has so much to do with what you are talking about and it has not been mentioned enough. The one guy either above or in you earlier post says he gets huge depth with his coils. I am impressed with that, but it may also be that his soil type is such that it allows for the coil to easily penetrate to these depths. Mineralization, amount of water in the soil, compaction and dirt type all play a role in the amount of depth you will get.
If you are willing to give a display model the time to learn how to use it, I have heard that people are doing fantastic with the White's MXT and it can be used in and out of water (unlike the xlt, which if you get it near water will drive you crazy!). Being that you are far from the beaches and Kansas has alot of compact soil, it would seem to me that this might really be the best machine to look at (regadless of coil size). I forgot to mention it above, but I believe this is also important. The Minelab and, I believe, the MXT are "multiple frequency" machines. The others, just run one or maybe two frequencies at a time. My Minelab runs 17 and the MXT runs many (not sure how many, but I think its like 5 or so). Just speaking from my own experience only, I have found tons more stuff since I started using one of these MF machines. Just some things to ponder. If you belong to a club, see who is doing the best with what type of machine. If you don't belong to one, find one and join it. It will increase your learning curve immensely. Have fun and good luck. CS :.)