Under what circumstances is a metal detectorist officially an amateur archeologist?

[el padron]

What constitutes an "amateur archeologist", and under what circumstances could an educated, seasoned and well versed metal detectorist reasonably declare him / herself as such?

 

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[el padron]

If in fact he had made the first phone call, and presented himself as an "amateur archaeologist", it wouldn't even matter that he doesn't speak English.

He could simply have reported that he had officially discovered the actual site of Fort St. Louis himself, and that he was an "archeologo aficinado", a term I thankfully recently learned myself.

How could they argue with him? Would they ask him for his amateur archeology license?

At the time his young children lived with him in a trailer on the site.
if his plight was presented more advantageously he would have gotten credit for discovering one of the most significant recent discoveries pertaining to early French American colonization.

OK, here it is.

If that circumstance actually occurred his offspring could have later filled out the first half of a Columbia University admittance application, crossed through the rest of it, turned it over, and simply written, "I was in the vicinity and a witness to my father, (so and so), an amateur archeologist who searched for and discovered the actual original site of French Fort St Louise in 1996."

They would have received full scholarships via chauffeured limousine instead of working at Jack in the box in hopes of one day being a ranch hand like their dad.

 

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[releventchair]

Onr version I recall was La Salle missed/overshot the Mississippi and finally stopped in current Texas with a very disgruntled crew. After a clumsy fort built a group including La Salle tried to hike it back eastward and along the way LaSalle was killed by part of the disgruntled faction, possibly dumped in the Mississippi.

But yes the man who confirmed the forts location deserves full credit.

 

[Escape]

I can't see how metal detecting can make anyone an another

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I can't see how metal detecting can make anyone an another

?? Think part of post is missing..



Posted From My $50 Tablet....




“A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”
― James Madison
The Constitution of the United States of America

 

[releventchair]

I can't see how metal detecting can make anyone an another

It could lead to enough interest to make one become an amateur.
Detector use only a part of it but they are used at times. Material remains are the objects that can be called relics. We deal in some such objects. Not sure if archaeology is only about prehistoric peoples but that is a great part of it.
Were we to locate a copper knife and record it's context in site location then research activity in that area in the past and the knives relationship to what culture we get closer to studying the culture it came from as an archaeologist would..Or if an unknown culture, as with a known, then ensuring the objects location when found can be documented accurately including all aspects of it's position, brings the subject closer and amateurish.Archaeologist | Define Archaeologist at Dictionary.com

 

[Escape]

?? Think part of post is missing..

Posted From My $50 Tablet....

“A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”
― James Madison
The Constitution of the United States of America

Yeah. I'm all thumbs on my phone keyboard. Things go out before they were ment to. Regarding what I was going to post, I forgot what I was going to say. Getting old can be a ...chalange.

 

[jeff of pa]

Yeah. I'm all thumbs on my phone keyboard. Things go out before they were ment to. Regarding what I was going to post, I forgot what I was going to say. Getting old can be a ...chalange.

I know what you were gonna say, but I'm psychic

 

[el padron]

It could lead to enough interest to make one become an amateur.
Detector use only a part of it but they are used at times. Material remains are the objects that can be called relics. We deal in some such objects. Not sure if archaeology is only about prehistoric peoples but that is a great part of it.
Were we to locate a copper knife and record it's context in site location then research activity in that area in the past and the knives relationship to what culture we get closer to studying the culture it came from as an archaeologist would..Or if an unknown culture, as with a known, then ensuring the objects location when found can be documented accurately including all aspects of it's position, brings the subject closer and amateurish.Archaeologist | Define Archaeologist at Dictionary.com

Isn't that what people do here? research?

I have no doubt that there are people here who have no classical archeological training or experience, that are absolute authorities on the subjects that interest them the most.

 

[releventchair]

Isn't that what people do here? research?

I have no doubt that there are people here who have no classical archeological training or experience, that are absolute authorities on the subjects that interest them the most.

Yes, many do research. While I would not be or be called an archaeologist,what definition fits them?
I was answering what appeared to be a question of, "I can't see how metal detecting can make anyone an another".
As, "I can't see how detecting can make anyone an amateur archie."
Being an authority on a subject is not what defines an archaeologist. (Though some archaeologist have their specialty's and archaeology is a subject.) Nor is being a detectorist a sure tie to being an archaeologist.. Can lines cross ,sure. Diggin is just a trace of archaeological pursuit.
Hey I was not alone debating in archaeology class of detecting vs "real" archaeology. Let alone the fate of all recovered objects worldwide shipped, (to where?) by archaeologists. Though there are things left and covered back up after a survey too.
Howard Carter, hero or villain? another debate.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

I'm a coin shooter. I don't do anything with architecture or publishing my finds - except maybe the occasional image here.

I would stay away from graves, buildings, tools or pottery and notify the professionals if I came across anything that appeared significant.

 

[villagenut]

I don't think that any reasonable archaeologist would deny the contributions made by what we are calling "Amateurs". Take for instance the 2009 Anglo Saxon hoard of some 4000 gold pieces. On my own local level is the collection of Walter Montague Tallant, a furniture store owner who in his spare time dug up Native American pottery, beads and gold ornaments from mounds throughout Florida during the 1910-1950 time period. His collection eventually made its way to the South Florida Museum, but along the way he sold and traded many of his pieces.Is he paraded around as a looter....no, but rather he is often labeled as an amateur archaeologist although he had no credentials as to this vocation.He in fact has acted as steward for this collection and is credited as a hero, nonetheless. Today this collection (or at least a portion) can be viewed at the local museum and has its place recorded in the Permanent Florida Record in Tallahassee.
On another note, I have witnessed a "dig" where artifacts that were excavated were pinned to a date point that matched the subject of this dig. Without going into detail, I will use a coin as an example. (If you find an 1820 Large Cent at a farm house, does it mean it was lost there in 1820? ....NO.) That is more or less what happened there, and the pit documentation reflected in the archaeologists favor as to what they were looking for. The profile of the pit's side elevation was as I would have guessed as I had dug my own pits just a block away and when I told of similar findings there at the same level but an 1840 time period rather than 1820. It was ignored because I suggested that this 1820 piece may have been discarded in the 1840 time period, which would have been a wrench in the spokes for this dig. My artifacts were not even up for consideration for the Tallahassee Record....because they didn't matter... They were not there when I found them and their names would gain no recognition over them either.How sad that is that history was ignored.... but their dig was a success...just ask them.

 

[jeff of pa]

I think the biggest difference between an archaeologist and me is, I don't feel I own
everything under the ground, in caves or carved in rocks.

but again Amateur is a state of mind.
Growing up I heard allot of friends in bars claiming to be amateur gynecologists.
doesn't mean they were qualified to set up an office.


Any_who, I personally wouldn't want to be an archaeologist, but
If I was confident calling myself an amateur archaeologist, may get me on a
otherwise off limits site, or out of legal trouble, I'd say I am one

 

[TheSleeper]

"Growing up I heard allot of friends in bars claiming to be amateur gynecologists." jeff,

Anyway back to the subject.
This has infuriated me for close to 50 years of hunting, it all has to do with who gets the recognition. A detectorist finds a horde, (mind you in the states not in England, as far as I am concerned they did it right over the pond, I wish our country would follow suite!!!!!) and if he/she opens their mouth the archies descend on the area like vultures, condemning him/her as desecrating, looting an historic site. It becomes off limits and total domain for the archies, but who governs them, it has been stated and proven in past history about archies homes filled with vast archaeological relics, their own private collections. Is there any difference, NO, except its legal for them whereas illegal for us.

According to some archies, they would rather see an item stay in the ground never unearthed, then to have one of US, amateur archaeologist find it and add it to our collection.

Isn't the point of relics, artifacts, to show them to others, to educate others about a period in time that we were not able to be present in, so that they may gain some inspiration/insight into their lives, habits etc. Each of us as amateur archaeologist perform that function the same as ANY and all museums, just on a smaller scale and without being financed by the federal government. We the unsung amateur archaeologist, research, search, dig and preserve any and all relics "WITHOUT" being paid by the federal government in terms of grants, to find the objects/relics we find.

I am sure that one of the posters who posted earlier in this thread is going to say I am insulting the archaeologist in this world, to which I will say that your post insults me and every one of US amateur archaeologist who post in this forum. Face it without us HALF of the legal archie digs would have never been found in the first place, only by US the unsung heroes have many hundreds, thousands of potential historic sites been located, all without a single penny of cost to the federal government.

A lot of (mind you not all) archies look down their arrogant noses at us the amateur archaeologist as looters, plunderers, thieves. They do not want to admit how much "WE" could help them, they are smart but so are we, and together we could assist each other, but that's not going to happen.

So to answer the ongoing question, are we amateur archaeologist?

Each time one of us finds a piece of history, preserves it and displays it for others to view, ya dang right we are, and we did not cost the federal government or any tax payer one red cent to do it.

Sorry guys/gals I will get off my soap box now, but this is and has been a sore subject of mine for years.

 

[Escape]

Amateur in my mind is not really a good designation. They get no respect and often are not trusted by the professional. After all, there amateurs and can cause problems because they haven't had the recognized education of there field. Except astronomy. Lots of amateur astronomers and they are excepted. Because regardless what they do they can't screw up the universe.

 

[Tnmountains]

I have no problem calling myself an amateur archeologist. I think we all should call ourselves that with good intentions of course!

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Archeologist - a specialist in the scientific study of prehistoric peoples and their cultures by analysis of their artifacts, inscriptions, monuments, etc.

"Scientific" would be the key. If you dig, yank and move on you're not an archeologist. If you study the situation and circumstances of the site, document and analyize the finds and report on the findings to your peers you may be an archeologist.

 

[Tnmountains]

I have hunted with archeologist they are ok. They most times have to paint with a broad brush. I use a smaller brush. They have a little knowledge on a whole lot of things. I have a lot of knowledge on just a few things.

Sincerly Amateur Archeologist,
TnMtns

 

[Nugs Bunny]

Historcharchaeologitician, Historian + Archaeologist + Mathematician.

 

[ssdsupply]

An amateur anything is a person who is not doing whatever for money. A prostitute is a professional such as a professional archaeologist is.

Steve Phillips

 

[gollum]

A simple question to ask yourselves:

When you metal detect and get a signal, do you dig until you find what that signal was? Then you are in no way any kind of Archaeologist (amateur or otherwise).

Archies are just like other human beings. Prone to have large egos, inflated senses of self importance, and greedy too. A story that matches perfectly with your cannon story is regarding a place on the North Rim of the Grand Canyon, in a place called Tuckup Canyon. The site was known to local cowboys back into at least the early 1900s. In the 1980s, a Hurricane, Utah Cowboy and Packer named Gordon Smith also saw this native panel. It was amazing and unlike anything he had ever seen before. He decided to take pictures and send them to the National Park Service. In a letter from the head of the NPS, he was called a liar and told that no such native panel exists in America. He claimed the pictures Smith took were from Australia or New Zealand. Eventually, enough people took interest in Smith's Pictures that he was asked to pack in a rock art specialist and archaeologist. When he brought them to this site, they were speechless.





Long story short, the rock art specialist and the archaeologist took all the credit for the find, and the National Park Service refuses to this day to acknowledge Smith's role in bringing this panel to the public. I call it by its original name "Gordon's Panel". The NPS calls it the "Shaman's Panel"

Mike