Under what circumstances is a metal detectorist officially an amateur archeologist?

[el padron]

What constitutes an "amateur archeologist", and under what circumstances could an educated, seasoned and well versed metal detectorist reasonably declare him / herself as such?

 

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[wingmaster]

Most archaeologist probably wouldn't do what they do for fun and there's plenty of sites in the US now they would scream and cry out loud if one would be found detecting but what's stopping them from working these sites now? Most want a big grant to do a dig and then want volunteers to do all the hard work while taking all the credit for what others dig up and as far as preserving artifacts those old coppers are wasting away in the ground as we speak, some are already so ate up you cant tell what they even are. HH

One could call themselves an amateur archaeologist as well as anything. To communicate with others in the field might take some study. The context in which an item is located. Defining what an artifact is and on and on. I took an online course and eventually debated a little about detecting. We parted ways. Some view detectorists as plundering treasure hunters , pothunters and other derogatory terms but they get friction too for their views,and others see a limited value in their use. Those in the field may vary in opinions and ideals just as detectorists do. One example would be in discussing at what age is it (if any) appropriate to unearth a body? While only slightly knowledgeable of all activities related most of it is slow laborious time consuming activity for me.
I'm not crazy about our antiquities act but there is a reason we have it. Debate rages over what preserving history is. My coffee table, or an unused backroom in a museum.
And where are the greatest collections? 225,000 items in Minnesota's historical society's collection...while not all see light often they may be in an environment that will preserve them. The Smithsonian ect..

 

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[Digging Deeper]

I have read this topic a few times and have come to the conclusion that I am going to be happy being an amateur METAL DETECTORIST. I would love to be able to contribute to historic events but it is apparent that the professional archeologist don't want me digging. With that said I'm going to continue doing what I love and let them do what they do. This hobby is one that keeps me excited. I won't bend over to pick up a new quarter on the side walk but I will trek through a briar patch, get my feet wet, let my back ache to find and dig up a wheat penny, and feel good about it. Lots of work and small rewards makes this hobby so much fun. Anyone feel like that?

 

[bill from lachine]

DD,

Yup......I detect pretty much exclusively urban green spaces....these sites have been landscaped, resodded, backfilled, etc so anything I find even with some age is out of context and what I consider random drops.

Nothing that is really going to be history shattering so if they don't like what we do they can take a flying leap....lol.

Regards + HH

Bill

 

[TheSleeper]

Well my honest to god gut feeling on why we do not have a policy like England does is because of the archies in this country.
I know there are some good and bad archies, yes just like in any other profession, including Metal detecting/treasure hunting, but the policy England uses has come back ten fold for them in the number of finds, relics, treasures, found by WHO, us the amateur treasure hunters/metal detectorist, not the archies.

The archies in England, give full credit to the hunter who made the discovery, here they look down their nose's at us.

I'm not trying to insult anyone nor stir up a hornets nest, but Dang it, if it works for England, it would work here for us!

 

[bill from lachine]

TheSleeper,

Just to add a bit more perspective to my online experience with the archeology course.....I did mention the UK's PAS (Portable Antiquities Scheme).....

Odds are the North American crowd feels threatened because the vast majority of finds made in the UK have been by detectorists....it would make them look redundant if the same approach were taken here.

Regards + HH

Bill

Well my honest to god gut feeling on why we do not have a policy like England does is because of the archies in this country.
I know there are some good and bad archies, yes just like in any other profession, including Metal detecting/treasure hunting, but the policy England uses has come back ten fold for them in the number of finds, relics, treasures, found by WHO, us the amateur treasure hunters/metal detectorist, not the archies.

The archies in England, give full credit to the hunter who made the discovery, here they look down their nose's at us.

I'm not trying to insult anyone nor stir up a hornets nest, but Dang it, if it works for England, it would work here for us!

 

[TheSleeper]

TheSleeper,

Just to add a bit more perspective to my online experience with the archeology course.....I did mention the UK's PAS (Portable Antiquities Scheme).....

Odds are the North American crowd feels threatened because the vast majority of finds made in the UK have been by detectorists....it would make them look redundant if the same approach were taken here.

Regards + HH

Bill

Bill I totally agree.

 

[bill from lachine]

TheSleeper,

The irony is that as a community we probably have way more experience and knowledge than them.....maybe not the sheepskin but our experience was learned from the school of hard knocks which to my mind has just as much or more validity than their degrees....just saying.

Regards + HH

Bill

 

[releventchair]

I feel we have greater mobility numbers wise and even hours wise in some locales and cover/ discover/note non known sites too. Heck we have to leave known sites on public land here anyway so if ancient sites or articles are located they are often unknown..
There are portions of state land here in Michigan off limits (I'm not overly offended or cheering it either, just noting a process) where a survey showed evidence an early culture left sign and site is restricted after. As noted by an above post site sets un studied or recoveries made after due to a variety of reasons mainly manpower and financial. Over the course of thousands of years sign is well scattered. Interment sites and stuff sure we can leave be.
A brief course in how to document finds and the importance to the archaeological field of their context would be of greater benefit to them than detectorists in recording historic relics but what incentive exists for cooperation?.

 

[XtreasureX]

My 2 Cents. Archeologist: the guy who gets paid to dig up stuff. Treasure Hunter: the guy who pays to dig up stuff. Grave Robber: the guy who pays to dig up stuff where an Archeologist digs up stuff.

 

[bzbadger]

I'd rather not be called one at all. Archaeologists call us bad names, don't like us and do what they can to keep us away from places. They call us thieves etc yet they in the name of science dug up Egyptian tombs, removed bodies and artifacts and took them away and have done so to other places as well. Hypocrisy in my book. I've only taken things from where I have permission and I would never keep something l felt was meant for the owner of the land. Archies ehh

 

[abbynormal]

I stick with amateur historian. I study the history of my area and my state extensively and did so before I even thought of detecting, so I stick with that. I don't know enough about archaeology to call myself that, but then I never really wanted to. One of the things I like best about this hobby is meeting folks and talking to them about what they know of the history of my neighborhood.

 

[Skippy SH13]

I highlighted "preserving history" in your quote. You have to keep in mind that you are stopping the natural history of an item if you force someone to do something they do not want to with it. I am not saying there is no place for archeology but the fact remains the same as for stopping natural history. Some have no qualms in doing so and are not interested in the natural history of items continuing.

Hmmm... So (legitimate question), is the natural history of a coin Stopped, simply because it's dug up? Does that mean the natural history of a coin is acceptably continuing if it's dropped and then picked up before dirt covers it?

I'm confused on this point (really, I'm not trying to be a smart guy). What constitutes the natural history of an item? Isn't it "natural" if someone finds something of value that they pick it up?

I can understand losing the context of something if it's removed from the location in which it was found, but that doesn't mean the natural history of the object is interrupted. It just means it's new natural history is in my coin folder, right?

-Skippy

 

[Escape]

I think the title only has merit if it is bestowed by archologist as a form of recognition for knowledge, experience or something note worthy. Other wise an 8 year old kid looking for dinosaur bones in a playground can claim that title.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Hmmm... So (legitimate question), is the natural history of a coin Stopped, simply because it's dug up? Does that mean the natural history of a coin is acceptably continuing if it's dropped and then picked up before dirt covers it?

I'm confused on this point (really, I'm not trying to be a smart guy). What constitutes the natural history of an item? Isn't it "natural" if someone finds something of value that they pick it up?

I can understand losing the context of something if it's removed from the location in which it was found, but that doesn't mean the natural history of the object is interrupted. It just means it's new natural history is in my coin folder, right?

-Skippy

Taking neither side - but coins are a trace marker for a site. They can help date the depth at which they are found and so help date the objects found with them. You can also somewhat tell borders, trade routes, outposts, help date wrecks and disasters (wall collapses, castle attacks, shipwrecks, etc.)

Such things as bullets can tell where lines were held and buy which side, spent casings the same.

Do archaeologists really need to know who was where in the US in 1800? No, because we have written history and by then fairly accurate maps. Most detectorists are taking pretty shallow coins so they are either recent or otherwise disturbed to get up to where we can find them.

 

[Skippy SH13]

Taking neither side - but coins are a trace marker for a site. They can help date the depth at which they are found and so help date the objects found with them. You can also somewhat tell borders, trade routes, outposts, help date wrecks and disasters (wall collapses, castle attacks, shipwrecks, etc.)

Such things as bullets can tell where lines were held and buy which side, spent casings the same.

Do archaeologists really need to know who was where in the US in 1800? No, because we have written history and by then fairly accurate maps. Most detectorists are taking pretty shallow coins so they are either recent or otherwise disturbed to get up to where we can find them.

Ah, see, that makes more sense... but I'm in Idaho, where the history is really only about 100 years old. In that frame, a coin at a site that was active through the 1960's as a mining camp to me isn't Archeological. People know EXACTLY what happened there. A mercury dime found at the site isn't going to hep anything.

It bugs me that I if I have a metal detector, I can't pick up a coin on some of our "public lands" if it's older than 30 years without having to report it. CRAP, I CARRY change older than 30 years! (I wrote that and just pulled out my change out of my pocket... found a 1963 penny... That's 52 years right there).

I did note that many state parks have a '$25' provision, meaning if it's worth less than that, it's fair game, so that helps a lot. The question is whether or not you go with the US Government's claim that a double eagle is worth $20, or the market prices.

Anyway, the whole thing seems absurd in areas where the 'history' is less than a century.


-Skippy

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Here's a defense: tell them this is obviously your cultural heritage site because the coin found (if post 1650 or so) was likely dropped or placed by your ancestors; and a notable one of those ancestors proclaimed "A penny saved is a penny earned." So it is a cultural act of great significance for you to save a penny, or any modern coin, from the soil where it is not naturally present.

 

[Skippy SH13]

Here's a defense: tell them this is obviously your cultural heritage site because the coin found (if post 1650 or so) was likely dropped or placed by your ancestors; and a notable one of those ancestors proclaimed "A penny saved is a penny earned." So it is a cultural act of great significance for you to save a penny, or any modern coin, from the soil where it is not naturally present.

And there's probably some serious truth to that. I'm a 6th Generation Idahoan. That may not sound like much to many folks, but around here, that makes my family a "firster."

Came over on the Oregon trail and settled Star Idaho instead of continuing on to the Willamette Valley. We've been here a LONG time, and I can certainly show/demonstrate family usage/participation at virtually all the sites I MD (100% of them so far, allotting for the future).

I'm not expecting any major trouble, but as a good citizen I really DO want to follow the law. There's plenty of places I can detect, I just want to make sure I'm not held out of places that are lawful, simply because of ignorance. Just as ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking the law, it ought to be the same for preventing someone from LAWFULLY metal detecting.

Skippy.

 

[John Errigo]

What's wrong with..It's lost FOREVER, then by luck, I find it, bring it back up to the surface, probably it would have NEVER been found. Then save it from extinction, and then clean/preserve it. Then put in an illuminated glass case and kids and people go WOW. I think only 1 of the Top Ten involved an Archaeologist. Not that they shouldn't be used but, usually when it's 6 inches deep you are merely unearthing it. Not a bona fide DIG. Unless there's exposed Dinosaur bones or something, when should an Archeologist be called in? I don't want a title. When I find the BIG ONE you can then call me Sir.

 

[Jim Spencer]

My son is an archeologist and insists I am a treasure hunter, not an amateur archeologist, relic recover, or any other euphuism to sound like I am any thing but a Treasure Hunter.

 

[bill from lachine]

Folks,


Let's just say I've had a few run ins with the archies....lol...

The fact is probably 90% or more of detectorists detect at sites where the soil has been disturbed....be it urban green spaces where fill has been added, resoded or landscaped most others detect farmers fields which again the soil has been turned over again and again.

The archies blame us for destroying the context of old finds by removing them....my answer is bullcrap....the strata at which they were found is out of whack and has no historical context whatsoever....that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Regards + HH

Bill