To ask, or not to ask...

[AugustMoose87]

So when I started detecting last year, I would have said you ask for permission to detect every time, just to be safe. Even in Parks and stuff, because by asking first, you can avoid trouble. Now that I've been at it a while, I absolutely see how there are some times you should ask (someone's front yard) and others that asking will only stir the pot (public Parks). However, I am wondering about the grey area, and how everyone approaches those. Like churches, cemeteries, and even some schools - most of them are open to the public, but not really for recreation purposes. My gut (or maybe my internal Park Ranger) says asking is the way to go, but I'm curious to hear others thoughts.

When do you ask first, and when do you just start swinging?

 

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[ToastedWheatie]

Yes, I do. NOT above or around graves but why not around the old trees? If kids were allowed to climb the trees and play around them (old coins) why can't I play around them with my machine? LEAVE NO UNFILLED HOLES. But the holes get filled (not the 6 footers, though) wherever I dig. TTC

Just an FYI- In New York, it is illegal to metal detect in cemeteries. Any part of the property whatsoever.
And I personally would avoid it for one other reason: people place things on the graves of their loved ones. I would hate to find Gramps gold pocketwatch that little Johnny put in the dirt on his grave. Or the toy that Mom put there for her child.

Just NOT cool .

And I can never assume that just because there's not a headstone does not mean there isn't a grave underneath.

 

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[CaballoDeOro]

So far, I have steered clear of the grey areas.

Exactly. For the good of our hobby, we have to be very careful about the choices we make and how those choices might be perceived. The general public is watching us and, rightly or wrongly, will make judgments about whether we are harmless hobbyists or self-serving vandals. There is no silver coin in a cemetery worth damaging our reputation for.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

There are plenty of threads on hunting cemeteries that can be searched on TN and they end badly ... We do not need another one...

 

[TerryC]

Just an FYI- In New York, it is illegal to metal detect in cemeteries. Any part of the property whatsoever.
And I personally would avoid it for one other reason: people place things on the graves of their loved ones. I would hate to find Gramps gold pocketwatch that little Johnny put in the dirt on his grave. Or the toy that Mom put there for her child.

Just NOT cool .

And I can never assume that just because there's not a headstone does not mean there isn't a grave underneath.

Illegal in New York.... I will not detect there. And again, the pocket watch (as far as I'm concerned) would still be there because (as I have stated) I don't dig on or around graves. No headstone? How would I know if a grave is there without a stone? How well kept is the cemetery? grass cut? Stones all upright? Fenced? All in good repair? I had a relative that died at 4 or 5 well over 150 years ago. Her gravesite was "re-occupied" twice since then, erasing any visible markers that she was ever there. The point I am making is, like anything else requiring an objective decision, be careful, you may be "digging your own grave"! TTC

 

[TerryC]

There are plenty of threads on hunting cemeteries that can be searched on TN and they end badly ... We do not need another one...

Yes. Some topics bring out the passion some of us have for our hobby! This is good. As long as we keep the personal "digs" out of it. Otherwise we could just send drones or robots in for the "kill"! TTC

 

[TheHunterGT]

Perhaps a better illustration of the dilemma would be a sidewalk tear out. I know tons of us have detected them, and while I haven't, I'm going to as soon as I get the chance. That being said, having worked for multiple government agencies, I know if I was ever working on a tear out, we would not allow the public to enter the work area for any reason, due to liability concerns. I know for a fact that people have been cited for just walking through. So in that case, you are in a location that is typically open to the public, it is public property, but at least where I'm at, I KNOW they don't want people in the work area. I KNOW if I were to contact someone and ask, I would get an immediate "NO". But I also know that if I went there after the workers had gone home for the day, and left no trace (fill hole, take trash, etc.) no one would know or care.

I'm not going to get into the ask or don't ask discussion as I am a "ask permission" guy and the horse has been beaten to death between Tom and I. Anyhow...the small Colorado town I live was founded in 1881 as of late is doing sidewalk and street tear-ups. Yippee!!!

Made a call to the cities head engineer and asked permission. He was pretty cool about it. Told me he did not see a problem as long as I did not touch the heavy equipment and as long as it was after 5pm when the workers had gone home. Wished me good luck and said he hopes I find a few old coins. Already had been there done that with the PD and Sheriff...so I know no laws in my town and they wished me good luck as well. But figured it was safe and polite ask the head engineer himself. No issues....I'll be heading to those spots soon hopefully.

Obviously my small town Colorado is going to be more lax than a major city or populated area. So it is definitely a "where you are" scenario IMO.

 

[Skippy SH13]

I've stopped worry about finding places to ask, because I'll never run out of public places. There's a list a mile long of places I'd still like to hit, and I'll probably be going back to my favorites long before those every get through... Just sayin' that there's probably enough permissive places, to not worry about it.

It DOES, however, depend on what you're hunting for. Me, I love jewelry and change. Couldn't care less about relics. If you're looking for history, or silver, you might be looking at permission, and then, I recommend you get it.

 

[TheHunterGT]

I've stopped worry about finding places to ask, because I'll never run out of public places. There's a list a mile long of places I'd still like to hit, and I'll probably be going back to my favorites long before those every get through... Just sayin' that there's probably enough permissive places, to not worry about it.

It DOES, however, depend on what you're hunting for. Me, I love jewelry and change. Couldn't care less about relics. If you're looking for history, or silver, you might be looking at permission, and then, I recommend you get it.

Good point. I have a ton of public places to hunt out here. But I am definitely looking for my first silver still...and even better something from the 1800's. If it happens great...if not..no biggie. Each bottle cap and pull tab is still an adventure for me. That sounds pretty sad eh?

 

[Skippy SH13]

Good point. I have a ton of public places to hunt out here. But I am definitely looking for my first silver still...and even better something from the 1800's. If it happens great...if not..no biggie. Each bottle cap and pull tab is still an adventure for me. That sounds pretty sad eh?

Nope, Huntergt, it's not sad at all. I've never personally found a single silver coin, and the oldest of the 4 wheats I've come across was 1941, and those were on TOP of the grass or bar (obvious recent drops). I've elected to take my clad findings, though, and populate an 1800's book of coins. I now have something like 50 of the 57 coins I'm trying to type set, including Draped bust cents, trimes, and a bunch of quarter varieties. All 100% funded by my metal detecting. Yeah, I've never "found" a single one of the coins, but that doesn't mean my hobby hasn't been very worthwhile in the collecting department! When people come to my house and ask to see what I've found, I show them the weird stuff, the foreign coins, and then explain I've found over $475 in coins, which I've used to fund an 1800's collection of US coins..> When I bring THAT out, their eyes really pop. They love it as much as I do.

This isn't to say that finding one wouldn't be the bomb... I just know that out here in the West, the likelihood of me finding anything that old is pretty dang small!

Skippy

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... and the horse has been beaten to death between Tom and I. .....

..... is doing sidewalk and street tear-ups. Yippee!!!

Made a call to the cities head engineer and asked permission. He was pretty cool about it. Told me he did not see a problem .....

hunter-GT, when the subject comes up of permission for various type locations, someone often chimes in with success stories like yours. Of cities, or cops, or , whomever, that "gave them permission".

The obvious implicit take-away to stories like that (like your story here) is something like this: "See! It's a good thing I asked". and "So we should all ask", etc.... right ? That's the desired notion of such examples afterall.

But think of it: Did you REALLY think that city person was going to answer something like this: "Gee that's a odd question. You don't need my permission. Why are you calling us?" No, of course not. Power/authority never answers like that. So instead they will bestow on your their princely yes or no. Afterall, you asked. That only subconsciously implies to them that their say-so was needed.

Hence I do not constitute anyone's answer of "yes" or "no" to mean "gee it's a good thing I asked".

I hunt sidewalk tearouts all the time. I'm sure if I were to have always tried to get permission from cities, I'd have risked precluding myself from some good ones over the years. By city folk who might have given the "safe" answer.

 

[cudamark]

I figure if they don't want me on a construction/tear-out type site, they'll erect a temp fence with "keep out" signs on it. If they string yellow caution tape around it, I'll be cautious and go at night after the crew leaves for the day.....I try not to overthink these things.

 

[TheHunterGT]

hunter-GT, when the subject comes up of permission for various type locations, someone often chimes in with success stories like yours. Of cities, or cops, or , whomever, that "gave them permission".

The obvious implicit take-away to stories like that (like your story here) is something like this: "See! It's a good thing I asked". and "So we should all ask", etc.... right ? That's the desired notion of such examples afterall.

But think of it: Did you REALLY think that city person was going to answer something like this: "Gee that's a odd question. You don't need my permission. Why are you calling us?" No, of course not. Power/authority never answers like that. So instead they will bestow on your their princely yes or no. Afterall, you asked. That only subconsciously implies to them that their say-so was needed.

Hence I do not constitute anyone's answer of "yes" or "no" to mean "gee it's a good thing I asked".

I hunt sidewalk tearouts all the time. I'm sure if I were to have always tried to get permission from cities, I'd have risked precluding myself from some good ones over the years. By city folk who might have given the "safe" answer.

That is why in post 26 I made sure to point out that my town is very small and rules are much more lax compared to a major city. My chances of running into the city engineer or a worked who would call him are much greater than somebody else....so I figured it was polite to just call him and ask and be done with it. He was very awesome about it like 100% of my calls have been (even to major cities). So once again...this is my personal experience and I don't do the "what if" game. I try things for myself...if they work awesome...if not then I try a different solution or just hunt elsewhere.

I'm not here to ruin or save MDing. We have already hashed this out page by page in other threads. Were not changing each others minds that is for sure. I stand by asking...you do not. We both still get to detect and have fun.

As far as your question.... A city park manager/groundskeeper in Colorado Springs once approached me with a stern look on his face I mistook for anger. It was just his normal face however. I had already called about local laws and none about detecting so I knew I was safe. Just did not really want the anger towards me. He saw I was skeptical of his approach and when I asked him "You ok with me being here"? His response was "Your cool man....I'm not the police so it's not up to me...just please be respectful of my park since I make my living making it look nice". I smiled and was relieved not because I thought I was breaking a law...but because I don't want to disrespect another mans livelihood or have a pissed off conversation with somebody. I showed him on the spot how I dig my plugs and told him there were at least 10-15 "over there" as I pointed to what looked like undisturbed grass. He said "awesome" and then we talked detectors for a bit as he was curious and even talked about getting his own someday.

As he turned to leave I asked him...."If it was up to you would you still let me dig"? His answer was a wry "Does everybody dig as nice as you"? I replied "I would like to think so but I'm sure there are bad apples out there"...we both laughed and left it at that without a definitive yes or no from him...not that I needed it as the PD already said to have fun.

Once again...my experience and not anybody else...no "what if" stuff going down...just 2 dudes talking like polite adults.

I'm not telling anybody how to hunt or dig....I just share my experience and let them be adults and make their own decisions. Sneak if ya want...ask if ya want. My experiences in asking have opened more doors than closed them. Like I said in the other threads the PD and Sheriff have given me places they thought would pay off......that is pretty nice and they absolutely did not have to do that. If I had not asked I never would have known those places exist obviously.

I absolutely do not think I am making it harder for anybody and will absolutely never have a new law or order written up because of my simple phone calls. I make a SINGLE call to the PD or Sheriff and cover the entire area. I am surely not asking little old desk ladies or the mayor or city council. Only fools play that game.

 

[Diggin-N-Dumps]

If there isnt a sign that says "No Metal Dectecting" or Private Property..then my ass is detecting it. Ive been to places that said no trespassing on the front door. So I followed those rules and stayed out of the house. Ive never been approached by the Law when Im at these houses and trust me, they drive by every 10 mins.

I have learned in the past that alot of times, its easier for someone to say NO if they dont know for sure. So i take the chance and let them tell me to leave, which I would do in a heartbeat.

Better to ask for forgiveness then permission....ask my 2 ex wives :P

 

[TheHunterGT]

If there isnt a sign that says "No Metal Dectecting" or Private Property..then my ass is detecting it. Ive been to places that said no trespassing on the front door. So I followed those rules and stayed out of the house. Ive never been approached by the Law when Im at these houses and trust me, they drive by every 10 mins.

I have learned in the past that alot of times, its easier for someone to say NO if they dont know for sure. So i take the chance and let them tell me to leave, which I would do in a heartbeat.

Better to ask for forgiveness then permission....ask my 2 ex wives :P

LOL...married twice so hard to argue that! Would not even argue the rest as IMO is it "to each there own".

My small town actually has a law/ordinance that says they do not have to post signs publicly.....pretty sure most have that rule in place. I know Cincinnati does not place signs at their city parks yet enforce the no metal detecting law very strictly....pity the person that digs in that city park. From what my detector pal who lives there says you WILL be fined. I'm too broke for that crap.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.....does not place signs at their city parks yet enforce the no metal detecting law very strictly....pity the person that digs in that city park. From what my detector pal who lives there says you WILL be fined. I'm too broke for that crap.

hunter-GT, thanx for being a good-sport and letting me pick your brain. We may not convert each other's stances, but .... it's interesting to see how each side of an issue thinks.

I can think of a few demolition sites (at public sites, no less, like sidewalk or school demolition, etc...) where someone asked and got a "no". Yes I realize that you say "no problem, I'll just detect somewhere else". But you can only imagine the .... uh .... "odd situation" that arises when later, that md'r who got a "no", bumps into other md'rs who are showing them handfuls of silver from that location. Ok, you tell me, if you were the md'r who got that "no", yet saw others md'ing there and it was quite clear that no one cared, wouldn't you be a bit miffed ? And then put yourself in the shoes of those md'ing there, now being told by their fellow md'r "the city doesn't allow that". Huh ? Since when ? Does that mean we have to stop now ? And if I now got booted, you can bet one part of me would be thinking in the back of my mind "I wonder if this isn't happening because the other guy [bless his little heart] went and swatted a hornet's nest ? Such that the pencil pusher, when he NOW sees another md'r, thinks "aha! there's one of *them*!" and starts booting others.

Not saying this happens all the time, just saying I've seen it happen.

As for the innocuous parks in Cincinnati that a) rule that says no md'ing, yet b) it's not posted. Ok, do you know of anyone who has really been "fined" for that ? I'm going to guess it was someone being obnoxious, couldn't take a warning, being a nuisance/mess, etc.... Perhaps I'm wrong, and there's examples of someone getting "roughed up" in a sanbox somewhere, jailed, fined, etc.... But I can't help but think that there's normally more to such stories. Versus the the "sky is falling" takeway that such stories are meant to portray.

 

[toolmanbutch]

Not sad at all. Just the Thrill Right?

 

[TheHunterGT]

hunter-GT, thanx for being a good-sport and letting me pick your brain. We may not convert each other's stances, but .... it's interesting to see how each side of an issue thinks.

I can think of a few demolition sites (at public sites, no less, like sidewalk or school demolition, etc...) where someone asked and got a "no". Yes I realize that you say "no problem, I'll just detect somewhere else". But you can only imagine the .... uh .... "odd situation" that arises when later, that md'r who got a "no", bumps into other md'rs who are showing them handfuls of silver from that location. Ok, you tell me, if you were the md'r who got that "no", yet saw others md'ing there and it was quite clear that no one cared, wouldn't you be a bit miffed ? And then put yourself in the shoes of those md'ing there, now being told by their fellow md'r "the city doesn't allow that". Huh ? Since when ? Does that mean we have to stop now ? And if I now got booted, you can bet one part of me would be thinking in the back of my mind "I wonder if this isn't happening because the other guy [bless his little heart] went and swatted a hornet's nest ? Such that the pencil pusher, when he NOW sees another md'r, thinks "aha! there's one of *them*!" and starts booting others.

Not saying this happens all the time, just saying I've seen it happen.

As for the innocuous parks in Cincinnati that a) rule that says no md'ing, yet b) it's not posted. Ok, do you know of anyone who has really been "fined" for that ? I'm going to guess it was someone being obnoxious, couldn't take a warning, being a nuisance/mess, etc.... Perhaps I'm wrong, and there's examples of someone getting "roughed up" in a sanbox somewhere, jailed, fined, etc.... But I can't help but think that there's normally more to such stories. Versus the the "sky is falling" takeway that such stories are meant to portray.

I'll give my buddy a call and ask him. From the way he talks about that park and rules in Cinncy I am assuming a few have been fined but not 100% on that. You make a good point on the rest...I will ponder it and post tomorrow. Past my bedtime already as I type this.

 

[Swaveab]

@Diggin-N-Dumps You better watch yourself as NO TRESPASSING does not just mean stay out of the house as it means the entire property is off limits. The cops were probably debating to approach you or not and kept an eye on you every 10 minutes. I have the signs on my property and I mean what it says and I have called the police on those that do trespass as I've seen too many lowlifes go through here and even steal and vandalize. Those that knocked on my door to ask permission to be here usually got a yes, but I've been burned by some of them too. The bottom line here is is that you've been lucky up until now and you're pushing your luck by trespassing. I highly advise you to stop before you wind up either fined or in jail. Respect the owner.

 

[Swaveab]

@TheHunterGT I too am awaiting the day I find silver. I went to somebody else who detects and he said he is finding lots of silver in his own yard and we wanted to compare detectors so we both did his front yard one day. Seems I helped find his junk while he pulled two pennies, of which one was a wheatie, and one '64 Roosevelt. It isn't the detector either as he was in the right spots at the right times. I put my detector over some the same spots he found the stuff in just to verify mine worked ok. It's either my bad luck/his good luck or maybe he planted those coins and I doubt that as there wasn't any scar on the soil at those places that I saw.

I investigated an abandoned 1900 built home in the front and found 66 cents in clad, No silver or even older coins and it's making me wonder if at some time it was detected. I do hit it from time to time and am expanding my search area some, but my hopes aren't high being I had hit the well traveled spots already.

I guess I am semi-lucky in that I did find a wheat penny in another site that dated 1920. It had a mint mark, but it was in bad shape and I couldn't make out if it was a D or an S. At times I thought it easier to take a pick and shovel to the top layers of soil as I hit so much junk in it, but I painstakingly stayed the course. It'll happen one day for you just as I have confidence it'll happen for me and I look forward to that first silver coin.

 

[TheHunterGT]

@TheHunterGT I too am awaiting the day I find silver. I went to somebody else who detects and he said he is finding lots of silver in his own yard and we wanted to compare detectors so we both did his front yard one day. Seems I helped find his junk while he pulled two pennies, of which one was a wheatie, and one '64 Roosevelt. It isn't the detector either as he was in the right spots at the right times. I put my detector over some the same spots he found the stuff in just to verify mine worked ok. It's either my bad luck/his good luck or maybe he planted those coins and I doubt that as there wasn't any scar on the soil at those places that I saw.

I investigated an abandoned 1900 built home in the front and found 66 cents in clad, No silver or even older coins and it's making me wonder if at some time it was detected. I do hit it from time to time and am expanding my search area some, but my hopes aren't high being I had hit the well traveled spots already.

I guess I am semi-lucky in that I did find a wheat penny in another site that dated 1920. It had a mint mark, but it was in bad shape and I couldn't make out if it was a D or an S. At times I thought it easier to take a pick and shovel to the top layers of soil as I hit so much junk in it, but I painstakingly stayed the course. It'll happen one day for you just as I have confidence it'll happen for me and I look forward to that first silver coin.

It is bound to happen for sure as long as we keep at it. Many of the buildings in my small town are stone and brick from the late 1800's and early 1900's....just remodeled on the inside for newer plumbing and electrical. Been waiting patiently for the next street and sidewalk tears to happen.

I have not gone to any private property houses yet to ask but that is on my list once this eastern Colorado heat wave goes away and we get back into the 70's again.

As far as the No Trespassing.....good point. It absolutely does mean the whole property and not just the door it is posted on, at least here in Colorado it does. I don't even step on the lawn if I see that and probably wound not even ask the owner for permission to hunt. People usually do not place No Trespassing and Private Property signs up because they like visitors.