Rules of Thumb for MDing?

[MikeSD]

Rules of Thumb for MD'ing?

I have been trying to research the laws pertaining to metal detecting. Since every piece of land in the U.S. is controlled or owned by someone, from a legal point of view, permission is always needed to search and remove anything.

For instance, National Parks, Monuments and such are already excluded by law, as places on can hunt. And of course, private property, also requires permission.

However, there are also many areas that have already been approved (or not specifically forbidden), as places to use metal detectors. I suspect that there are places where one can hunt, without seeking specific permission. It's kind of hard to find where these areas might exist.

Another for instance. I know artifact hunters (non-metal detector) that hunt creek beds and along rivers. Apparently this is BLM land (navigable waters) and as long as one is below the high water mark, it's ok to hunt, without any specific permission. I'm sure this must also apply to metal detecting but I don't know for sure.

So, from a realistic point of view, say one is going on a many thousand mile road trip. I took two over the past couple of years. Both were from Washington to Arkansas and back. Over 10,000 miles combined on both trips. Along the route, I wondered about all the open land and how one would determine where they could hunt.

So, is there a list or rule of thumb about where one might hunt, without seeking specific permission or running afoul of the law? Can one stop and hunt in dry river beds? Can one hunt along any public road (or mountain dirt roads)? In open land, where there are no fences, no "no-tresspassing" signs and not on federal land (parks or forrest), is that a place that one might reasonably hunt? Others? What areas do you hunt, where you don't seek specific permission?

This will come in handy on my road trip from Washington, down through Utah to Az. this year. It's scheduled for the first part of June.

Thanks

 

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[eagle77]

Re: Rules of Thumb for MD'ing?

Nebraska,

You could hunt from the fenceline - (Right Of Way line) to the road without permission, there is a law about excavation on a roadway, but I doubt you haul a Bobcat with you . Public lands are regulated differently by each entity so it would be difficult to say one or the other. Rec Parks that fall under Game & Parks control are regulated as well as some NRD Parks.

One poster had stated they MD at the Interstate Rest Areas (developed here in the late 50's and early 60's), I can not find any regulation against this. These would fall under Dept of Roads control. MD'ing under around bridges on the Interstate system in this state would not be advisable as pedestrians on the Interstate are prohibited. I personally avoid the Rest Areas because I know that there are numerous MD'ers traveling that want swing time while traveling, so I leave those areas to them. I know of one individual that takes walks along the state highway with her MD and has found clad and jewelry.

There is a waterway regulation regarding navigational water, the catch 22 is that once you touch or put your foot onto the creek/river bed you are on the persons property. As far as BLM land I don't know.

 

[MikeSD]

Re: Rules of Thumb for MD'ing?

There is a waterway regulation regarding navigational water, the catch 22 is that once you touch or put your foot onto the creek/river bed you are on the persons property.

I thought the catch 22 was that it applied to putting or touching above the high water mark. My understanding was that anything below the high water mark is considered part of the navigable water (dry or wet). Further, it doesn't matter if the water has long since dried up (i.e. dry beds are still ok). I don't know how this applies to metal detecting but I know people that hunt native american artifacts (arrowheads) and they say such a waterway (with or without water) can pass right through someone's private property and it's still ok to hunt, so long as you don't go above that high water mark. I asked the question because I was not sure if this was the case. Only what other artifact hunters have said, with regards to walking and searching, without MD.

 

[eagle77]

Re: Rules of Thumb for MD'ing?

There is no specific law relating to the watermarks, that I am aware of (State Regs or Laws). There maybe something on Federal regulated properties but private/state properties I am not aware of. The water in the stream is considered navigable until someone touches bottom. If it is necessary to touch bottom to cross and obstruction then it's permitted for that action only.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Re: Rules of Thumb for MD'ing?

I hunt any public park w/o any inquiries, wherever I travel, of all entities (city, county, state, and yes, federal) unless it's an obvious historic monument. Just don't be a sore thumb plugging in front of a ranger's office, or manicured lawns outside the mayor's window, etc...

One time I was md'ing in a federal forest here in CA, and a ranger chanced by me. He said that I couldn't keep anything newer than 50 yrs. old, and then drove off. No one carded me when I left, so I didn't know where to turn in the 1920's walking half I'd found

 

[SpecialFarces]

Re: Rules of Thumb for MD'ing?

Riparian water rights (or simply riparian rights) is a system of allocating water among those who possess land about its source. It has its origins in English common law. It is used in the United Kingdom and the eastern United States.

Under the riparian principle, all landowners whose property is adjacent to a body of water have the right to make reasonable use of it. If there is not enough water to satisfy all users, allotments are generally fixed in proportion to frontage on the water source. These rights cannot be sold or transferred other than with the adjoining land, and water cannot be transferred out of the watershed.

Riparian rights include such things as the right to access for swimming, boating and fishing; the right to wharf out to a point of navigability; the right to erect structures such as docks, piers, and boat lifts; the right to use the water for domestic purposes; the right to acretions caused by water level fluctuations; the right to view and protection of view. Riparian rights also depend upon "reasonable use" as it relates to other riparian owners to ensure that the rights of one riparian owner are weighed fairly and equitably with the rights of adjacent riparian owners.

In the western United States, water rights are generally allocated under the principle of prior appropriation, which treats water as a resource unrelated to land.

 

[MikeSD]

Re: Rules of Thumb for MD'ing?

There is no specific law relating to the watermarks, that I am aware of (State Regs or Laws).

BLM (Idaho): "Although all beaches and shorelines below the average high water mark are public land, there is a small amount of private property along the river above the high water line. Respect private land and enter it only with permission."

I have also seen the same of other areas. Not sure if it's river by river, state by state or what. But there is a distinction between land below and above the high water mark.

Something else I found on an Alaska Rivers page

The section on National River Law discusses river ownership, use, and conservation law throughout the United States. Following is a review of what individual states can and cannot lawfully do with the rivers within their borders.

• The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that rivers that are navigable, for title purposes, are owned by the states, "held in trust" for the public. This applies in all fifty states, under the "Equal Footing Doctrine."
• Rivers that do meet the federal test are automatically navigable, and therefore owned by the state. No court or government agency has to designate them as such.
• The federal test of navigability is not a technical test. There are no measurements of river width, depth, flow, or steepness involved. The test is simply whether the river is usable as a route by the public, even in small craft such as canoes, kayaks, and rafts. Such a river is legally navigable even if it contains big rapids, waterfalls, and other obstructions at which boaters get out, walk around, then re-enter the water.
• The states own these rivers up to the "ordinary high water mark." This is the mark that people can actually see on the ground, where the high water has left debris, sand, and gravel during its ordinary annual cycle. (Not during unusual flooding.) It is not a theoretical line requiring engineering calculations. Where the river banks are fairly flat, this mark can be quite a distance from the edge of the water during medium water flows. There is often plenty of room for standing, fishing, camping, and other visits.
• States cannot sell or give away these rivers and lands up to the ordinary high water mark. Under the "Public Trust Doctrine," they must hold them in perpetuity for public use.
• The three public uses that the courts have traditionally mentioned are navigation, fishing, and commerce. But the courts have ruled that any and all non-destructive activities on these land are legally protected, including picnics, camping, walking, and other activities. The public can fish, from the river or from the shore below the "ordinary high water mark." (Note that the fish and wildlife are owned by the state in any case.) The public can walk, roll a baby carriage, and other activities, according to court decisions.

The state's public trust ownership of a river is not diminished where a river flows through a National Forest, National Park, Wild and Scenic river, or other federal land-- the river is still "held in trust" for public navigation and recreation by the state. Federal agencies can regulate the development of and beside the river, and they can regulate commercial trips (because they are commerce not navigation). They can also prohibit certain types of navigation, such as motors, where motors would conflict with the public-trust enjoyment of the river. But regulations on non-commercial, non-motorized trips are subject to the subject's paramount right to navigate and visit the land along the river up to the ordinary high water mark.

Now, what about other areas that are open? Along roads (paved or unpaved), railroad tracks, etc.