Florida - no digging on federal park lands and beaches ??

[EMTFlorida]

Guys,

What is the law regarding metal detecting and digging? I'm in St Augustine, FL and I know there's tons that can be uncovered here. I researched the florida laws and there isn't too much explanation regarding the legalities. EXCEPT I read that on federal land such as federal parks, it's illegal to metal detect or dig and remove items and you could face a year in prison and a $20k fine.

So if that's the case, how in the world has this guy been doing it for 41 years, in st augustine FL, and even combing areas that are in low tide (which the law states is illegal) Metal detectorist finds rare treasures under sands | StAugustine.com

Is it more of like "if it doesn't have a sign that says no metal detecting, it's OK"? I also can't determine what areas of the beach the federal parks own; where that line ends. And when the line does end, can you dig underwater? Some laws say submersible items cannot be removed.

So then what about Mel Fisher or anyone else out there discovering shipwrecks? Is this illegal now?

I really want to get into this, it's been a hobby that has interested me for years now; just want to make sure I'm clear on the laws.

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

Guys,

What is the law regarding metal detecting and digging? I'm in St Augustine, FL and I know there's tons that can be uncovered here. I researched the florida laws and there isn't too much explanation regarding the legalities. EXCEPT I read that on federal land such as federal parks, it's illegal to metal detect or dig and remove items and you could face a year in prison and a $20k fine.

So if that's the case, how in the world has this guy been doing it for 41 years, in st augustine FL, and even combing areas that are in low tide (which the law states is illegal) Metal detectorist finds rare treasures under sands | StAugustine.com

Is it more of like "if it doesn't have a sign that says no metal detecting, it's OK"? I also can't determine what areas of the beach the federal parks own; where that line ends. And when the line does end, can you dig underwater? Some laws say submersible items cannot be removed.

So then what about Mel Fisher or anyone else out there discovering shipwrecks? Is this illegal now?

I really want to get into this, it's been a hobby that has interested me for years now; just want to make sure I'm clear on the laws.

Hey there EMT-florida. This topic gets a lot of press for *just* Florida, for some reason. No other eastern seaboard state gets quite the Q&A that Florida gets. No doubt d/t the fabled shallow wrecks from decades ago (ala mel fisher, and so forth). But anyhow, the topic has been addressed at depth by many FL beach hunters here. You will get some good answers shortly by those who routinely hunt the beaches there. Treasure hunter, for instance.

As far as your question concerns LAND though, I'll take a stab at that: You seem to be confining your question to *just* federal, right ? As opposed to in-land sites administered by city, state, county, private, etc.... right ? If so, be aware that there are various types of federal land. Some (like national parks) have true and specific "no detecting" rules. Yet others (like some BLM, some NFS, etc...) it's a non-issue. And only covered vaguely, at best, by perhaps cultural heritage verbage.

And you mention "dig and remove" verbage. If that truly concludes in "no detecting", then we can all probably give up detecting right now. Because I don't doubt there's ANY park, of ANY entity, that doesn't have some verbage to effect of either specifically "dig", or at least "alter", "deface", etc... Same for prohibitions on "removing" or "harvesting". I betcha that there's not a single speck of public land that doesn't have boiler plate verbage to that effect.

But seriously now: Such things were written so that no one starts commercially harvesting sand for sale. Or thinks he can cut down the trees for firewood. Or take home the park benches and sod for use in his own garden. *Could* such things be morphed to mean "no taking pennies and dimes from the sandbox?". I suppose. But realistically ? No.

 

[Normsel]

Use google maps to determine where Federal land boundary lines are. Most places you can dig under water just not at known ship wrecks

 

[EMTFlorida]

Hey there EMT-florida. This topic gets a lot of press for *just* Florida, for some reason. No other eastern seaboard state gets quite the Q&A that Florida gets. No doubt d/t the fabled shallow wrecks from decades ago (ala mel fisher, and so forth). But anyhow, the topic has been addressed at depth by many FL beach hunters here. You will get some good answers shortly by those who routinely hunt the beaches there. Treasure hunter, for instance.

As far as your question concerns LAND though, I'll take a stab at that: You seem to be confining your question to *just* federal, right ? As opposed to in-land sites administered by city, state, county, private, etc.... right ? If so, be aware that there are various types of federal land. Some (like national parks) have true and specific "no detecting" rules. Yet others (like some BLM, some NFS, etc...) it's a non-issue. And only covered vaguely, at best, by perhaps cultural heritage verbage.

And you mention "dig and remove" verbage. If that truly concludes in "no detecting", then we can all probably give up detecting right now. Because I don't doubt there's ANY park, of ANY entity, that doesn't have some verbage to effect of either specifically "dig", or at least "alter", "deface", etc... Same for prohibitions on "removing" or "harvesting". I betcha that there's not a single speck of public land that doesn't have boiler plate verbage to that effect.

But seriously now: Such things were written so that no one starts commercially harvesting sand for sale. Or thinks he can cut down the trees for firewood. Or take home the park benches and sod for use in his own garden. *Could* such things be morphed to mean "no taking pennies and dimes from the sandbox?". I suppose. But realistically ? No.

Good points. I'm also concerned about public land, or determining what is 'public', 'state', or 'federal' land. An example being , I live on the marsh, which connects to the intracoastal waterway. It's not federal land, we're not on a federal park or something like that, obviously. So I guess the land is owned by the state. It's pretty sketchy out there in the marsh, but with the right gear, there could be some amazing things to find. Spaniards cleared through these areas hundreds of years ago and who knows if anyone has ventured out there. So can I metal detect out there? The st augustine police department tells me "Sure, just be careful for the oyster beds." and "happy hunting", but who knows if what that officer told me is true.

And if I DO hunt out there, what if I find a historical site, like a collection of 500 year old coins? Am I allowed to take them and take possession of them, or am I required to stop and contact someone, and I don't get to keep them? Some laws I read said things older than 50 years old you have to make a phone call. But all of this is grey

 

[EMTFlorida]

Use google maps to determine where Federal land boundary lines are. Most places you can dig under water just not at known ship wrecks

can't seem to determine how to do that. trying to find out where the Florida's Fort Matanzas National Monument boundaries end.

 

[cudamark]

can't seem to determine how to do that. trying to find out where the Florida's Fort Matanzas National Monument boundaries end.

They don't have a fence around it?

 

[EMTFlorida]

They don't have a fence around it?

Nope. But I did find the google maps showing the areas that are green, and their beach line is both grey and yellow, so I imagine combing the beaches there is fine, just not through the land (green area). I'll get with a park ranger out there to verify.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... So can I metal detect out there? The st augustine police department tells me "Sure, just be careful for the oyster beds." and "happy hunting", but who knows if what that officer told me is true....

EMT, this quote above, tells me you're way-overthinking this. You got a clear and concise "go ahead", from the color of authority. But you're still worrying ? Are you waiting carpets to be rolled out and signs saying "metal detecting welcome here " ? For the mundane country-side, swamps, etc... you describe, I think you're way over-worrying this. As if archie commandos are hiding under rocks waiting to accost you ?

..... what if I find a historical site, like a collection of 500 year old coins? Am I allowed to take them and take possession of them, or am I required to stop and contact someone, and I don't get to keep them? Some laws I read said things older than 50 years old you have to make a phone call. But all of this is grey

Again, if you want to start looking long enough and hard enough, your state's lost & found laws probably require you to turn them in to the police station (if they're over $100 value). And the law makes no distinction on when *you* think they were lost, or age of item, etc... But again: Seriously now: Take a look at various show & tell finds forums. You will routinely see people posting their latest 51+ yr. old coins. So ask yourself: How many of them are rushing off to the nearest archie or police station to see if some bureaucrat wants it ? So I think you're over-analyzing all this.

Just avoid obvious historic sensitive monuments, and /or beaches with the fabled underwater wreck leases, and you'll be fine.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... I'll get with a park ranger out there to verify.

Verify land boundaries ? Or verify "can I metal detect?". If it's for the latter: just be careful you don't get caught up in the "no one cared TILL you asked" psychology. Do your own research, and be careful not to put yourself in the arbitrary whimsical moods of pencil pushers, who might give an easy answer of "no", to your pressing question, when no such rule truly says that.

 

[ARC]

Mmmm k.

First... and foremost...
And this applies to everyone reading this as good sound advice...

Always. repeat always... ASK if in doubt.
Ok now...
As far as the Florida basics...
NO National or Federal Lands. EVER.
State parks - SOME yes... SOME no... SOME require a permit.
Beaches Yes...
Water... This is a very grey area,,, and technically is a NO. Especially in restricted areas... MOST park water is off limits...
When entering ANY park..
Find the HEAD Ranger, Not the grounds guy and ask.
Cant find them and see a cop... Then ask them.

 

[ARC]

PS... you see a patch of woods... don't just jump out of your car and start detecting.
ESPECIALLY in the back woods.
NOT good here.

IF you see some cool property... find the owner via tax records and make contact and gain permission.
See them as you are driving by out mowing the lawn... Stop and use your charm to ask for permission.

Stick to the sands on any public access NON parks and you will never have a problem.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

...ASK if in doubt......

Can't a person remove that "doubt", by looking up laws for himself ? And if he doesn't know where to find said-laws (and really really wants to talk to a live person), they can ask the authority: "Where can I find/see the written laws, codes, ordinances, rules, etc..." They will be pointed to where it exists, in print form.

Or can't we hobbyists go by what is actually in practice ? I mean for example: If you research and find out that tons of people m.d. an area, for decades upon decades with no problems or issues, isn't that sufficient ?

 

[ARC]

Our laws on Md'ing here are um... heh

Here is a shot for ya....

"FLORIDA STATE PARK METAL DETECTING POLICY

The Division does allow metal detecting in certain cases. There are only three instances when metal detectors can be used in state parks. The park staff should ascertain the purpose
of the use to determine the appropriateness of the activity and the procedures to be used.

I.) Use of a Metal Detector to find a lost personal item Operations Manual (OM) Chapter 4 - General Administration (Revised 10/18/06)

Metal detectors may be used to recover personal items that are specifically identified by their owner as being lost in a specific area of a park.
The owner of lost property or his representative should contact the park manager who will arrange a time for the search to be conducted in the presence of a park staff member.
During these searches, only the item sought may be kept by the owner or his representative.

2.) Use of a Metal Detector for Recreational Purposes Operations Manual
(OM) Chapter 11 - Cultural Resource Management (Revised 6/13/05)

Use of metal detectors, magnetometers or other metal detecting devices is prohibited on all state park lands, including sovereign submerged lands under lease by state parks,
except for the following:

Coastal parks, in a zone between the waterline and toe of the dune, as determined by the Park Manager, except at archaeological sites within the zone designated by DHR or the Park Manager.

Any dug hole associated with the use of a metal detector must be refilled to the contour of pre-dig conditions using the excavated material.

This exception is for coastal parks, in a zone between the mean high water line (usually the upper limit of the wet sand area) and toe of the dune, as determined by the Park Manager,
except at archaeological sites within the zone designated by DHR or the Park Manager. This was done to allow this recreational activity in an area that the Division felt was
appropriate and safe. The zone between the waterline and toe of the dune is sand which is routinely dug by children and others building sand castles and other beach activities;
the zone is also very dynamic and recovers quickly.

If the Park Manager at a coastal park wants to further restrict the use of metal detectors and prohibit their use in the zone between the waterline and toe of the dune,
he/she can do that under authority provided in 62D-2. If the Park Manager intends to do this he/she must post notice to park visitors.

Florida Administrative Code Chapter 62D-2 Operation of Division Recreation Areas and Facilities 62D-2.014 Activities and Recreation (16) Hours.

The Division, in furtherance of the park management practices as stated in Sections 258.004, 258.007, 258.017 and 258.037, Florida Statutes,
may close any park or section thereof to the public at any time and for any interval of time, either temporarily or at regular stated intervals and either entirely or only for certain uses.
Park closures will be used to provide visitor and employee safety, resource protection, operational efficiency, and facility maintenance. No person shall remain in any closed park or
section thereof, unless authorized by the Division or park manager, or their delegate.
Verbal authorization shall be granted by the Division, the park manager, or their delegee, when it is in the best interest of the park, or of the person remaining in the closed area,
for safety, protection, construction, or restoration purposes.

3.) Use of Metal Detectors for Archaeological Research Operations Manual
(OM) Chapter 11 - Cultural Resource Management (Revised 6/13/05)

Use of metal detectors, magnetometers or other metal detecting devices is prohibited on all state park lands, including sovereign submerged lands under lease by state parks,
except for the following:
Archaeological research projects authorized by DHR
Any excavations within designated archaeological sites require permits from DHR. Objects found or recovered under the terms of a permit issued by DHR are property of the State of Florida,
with title vested by statute in DHR.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

....Stick to the sands on any public access NON parks and you will never have a problem.

Exactly. Not all is "doom and gloom grovel" or "inquire of everyone at the kiosk and call all sorts of lawyers". There's plenty of places where you can know simply because of what you can research for yourself, or where people are routinely md'ing.

 

[ARC]

Like I said... stick to the regular hotel and motel beaches and you will be just fine.

 

[EMTFlorida]

Like I said... stick to the regular hotel and motel beaches and you will be just fine.

Got it. But my main question is detecting on federal property BEACHES. Google maps shows those areas as grey. Fort Matanzas in St Augustine FL shows much federal green area but then the beaches are grey or yellow, which would mean it's not federal property. So can I detect on those beaches? I've sense called the Fort and am waiting for a call back.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

You can't detect on Federal beaches (National Seashores)... You can detect on public beaches......

 

[Honest Samuel]

Since the tax payers pay for federal beaches and upkeep, we should be allow to search for single coins and jewels and buried treasures. We need to complain to our Congress members.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Since the tax payers pay for federal beaches and upkeep, we should be allow to search for single coins and jewels and buried treasures. We need to complain to our Congress members.

It will fall on deaf ears. The more stink you and I make, the more they think of some "supposed evil". No doubt instilled in them by archies on their staffs. And then they just become all the more resolved to pass even more laws to stop these "geeks with shovels" who "harm the cultural heritage", and "profit off the backs of what belongs to the state", blah blah blah.

So as much as I know you'd want to make a stink, yet often time , that's the very thing that gets us more restricted.

Hence often-time, the LESS visibility actually bodes for the better. Not the more visibility.

 

[EMTFlorida]

Like I said... stick to the regular hotel and motel beaches and you will be just fine.

That is the correct answer. St Augustine says no metal detecting on public land anywhere in town. They do not own the beaches, however, and beaches are allowed. NO metal detecting at national park beaches, such as Fort Matanzas. Across the way at the public beach is fine.

So, AARC, what if you find something on those beaches that is dated quite old? Let's say I find a coin that looks 400 years old. Does FL state law require you to report the find, or are you OK to pocket it and move on?