One way signal?

[greenwyvern]

What does it mean when you get a nice consistent hit but from only one direction of the swing? Seems it happens a lot when I hunt on wet ground. Instead of getting my normal "ding-ding" as I pass over the target I get one "ding" from only one direction. The targets usually ring in between 80 to 91 on Technetics Euro-tech pro and Delta 4000 (as well as an older Bounty Hunter I have). After pinpointing and digging I find nothing most of the time! Some days it drives me crazy.

 

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[smokeythecat]

Normally when I get a 1 way signal it's a forged nail and I'm passing the coil along the length of the nail. Today it was tiny metal twist ties the machine found. How annoying. When you do find something, what is it?

 

[greenwyvern]

When I do find something it is usually a pull tab. It's annoying as it usually happens in clusters and I give up and put the machines up and quit for the day. By the way Smoky looks to be a fine moggy. The moggy that owns me is an American Blue who is certain he is the center of the universe.

 

[Loco-Digger]

My last one way signal was a V nickel. I would speculate that there was iron on the side which nulled the beep for the one swing direction, but the other direction gave a good solid signal and VDI reading. The iron can be below or above the good target in the soil for this to happen.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

greenwyvern, any time questions of one-way signals, disappearing signals, tones, etc.... come up on the forum, you have to figure that questions like this are almost impossible to answer in printed text. It would be like saying "describe the sound of C minor in printed text". It can't be done. It can only be heard. And no one reading that see the way you are swinging, and the exact meaning of "signal" and "ding" and "one way", etc.... Hence the only way is to hook up with someone proficient (preferably who uses the same machine as you), who routinely brings in the good stuff (ie.: not just a sandbox hunter). Flag signals for each other. Watch the way he tries to isolate. Listen to the signals he's trying to "bring in", Watch the way he swings. Notice what he'd pass (and don't be afraid to ask why or why not, etc...)

I'll give you a humorous example of what I'm talking about. There was a guy on the forum one time who was complaining of "one way signals" and "disappearing signals". He assumed something was wrong with his machine, so he sent it back to the factory for "repairs". It was an XLT. They sent it back saying nothing was wrong with it . So he went back in the field, and it kept doing the same thing! He read the instruction manual several times, cover to cover . He was fit to be tied, and assumed Whites had a terrible product. He even called the west coast Whites rep. personally, and described the problem over the phone. The rep. said "you must be operating it wrong". Which only made the md'r madder, because it seemed to insinuate that he was a dummy, incapable of reading and following simple instructions!

This fellow lives about an hour from me, so I agreed to meet up with him. In 1 minute, I figured out his problem: Whenever he'd get a signal, he'd slow down his sweep to "hear it better". But since the XLT is a fast motion machine (the faster you swing it the deeper you go, in disc. mode), his slowing down would cause the signal to start to break up, and/or disappear. Thus with his "slowing down" method over targets, he could only get the shallowest of signals. Everything "disappeared". Once I showed him the "motion" necessity, the lights went on and his problem was solved.

But I asked him: "I thought you said you read the instructions. Didn't you see the part about "motion required" ? He said that, yes of course he'd seen that instruction. But thought they were talking about swinging the coil from side to side as you walk and move. And he had thought "That's a stupid instruction. I mean, duh, HOW ELSE is anyone supposed to ever progress through the field and detect, UNLESS they were moving the coil side to side in motion?".

So you see, no amount of printed instruction could see or assess his problem. It was something that had to be seen and heard for someone else to diagnose. So too might yours be the same, where you're not centering, where your controls perhaps are set up wrong, where you're confusing "flutter" with signals, or your swing speed variations over suspected targets will immediately reveal info, etc..... All things that can only be assessed by either A) hard knocks, or B) hook up with someone proficient in your area for flagged signals comparing.

 

[greenwyvern]

greenwyvern, any time questions of one-way signals, disappearing signals, tones, etc.... come up on the forum, you have to figure that questions like this are almost impossible to answer in printed text. It would be like saying "describe the sound of C minor in printed text". It can't be done. It can only be heard. And no one reading that see the way you are swinging, and the exact meaning of "signal" and "ding" and "one way", etc.... Hence the only way is to hook up with someone proficient (preferably who uses the same machine as you), who routinely brings in the good stuff (ie.: not just a sandbox hunter). Flag signals for each other. Watch the way he tries to isolate. Listen to the signals he's trying to "bring in", Watch the way he swings. Notice what he'd pass (and don't be afraid to ask why or why not, etc...)

I'll give you a humorous example of what I'm talking about. There was a guy on the forum one time who was complaining of "one way signals" and "disappearing signals". He assumed something was wrong with his machine, so he sent it back to the factory for "repairs". It was an XLT. They sent it back saying nothing was wrong with it . So he went back in the field, and it kept doing the same thing! He read the instruction manual several times, cover to cover . He was fit to be tied, and assumed Whites had a terrible product. He even called the west coast Whites rep. personally, and described the problem over the phone. The rep. said "you must be operating it wrong". Which only made the md'r madder, because it seemed to insinuate that he was a dummy, incapable of reading and following simple instructions!

This fellow lives about an hour from me, so I agreed to meet up with him. In 1 minute, I figured out his problem: Whenever he'd get a signal, he'd slow down his sweep to "hear it better". But since the XLT is a fast motion machine (the faster you swing it the deeper you go, in disc. mode), his slowing down would cause the signal to start to break up, and/or disappear. Thus with his "slowing down" method over targets, he could only get the shallowest of signals. Everything "disappeared". Once I showed him the "motion" necessity, the lights went on and his problem was solved.

But I asked him: "I thought you said you read the instructions. Didn't you see the part about "motion required" ? He said that, yes of course he'd seen that instruction. But thought they were talking about swinging the coil from side to side as you walk and move. And he had thought "That's a stupid instruction. I mean, duh, HOW ELSE is anyone supposed to ever progress through the field and detect, UNLESS they were moving the coil side to side in motion?".

So you see, no amount of printed instruction could see or assess his problem. It was something that had to be seen and heard for someone else to diagnose. So too might yours be the same, where you're not centering, where your controls perhaps are set up wrong, where you're confusing "flutter" with signals, or your swing speed variations over suspected targets will immediately reveal info, etc..... All things that can only be assessed by either A) hard knocks, or B) hook up with someone proficient in your area for flagged signals comparing.

Thanks Tom. Actually I was hoping someone could answer why it seems to happen "in clusters" with no reason I can easily see, with the exception of happening often when hunting in wet grass. Does not matter which detector I'm using...I've owned almost every brand name since the mid 80's and there have been days it has happened with all of them for a short period of time. I know it is not the detector nor my style causing it.

Example. Before I typed the question yesterday I had been hunting a park I have hit hard over the last 10 years since I moved to my current location. Couldn't get anything done. Every detector I pulled from a bag was single hitting with nothing in the target hole. Today I did a short hunt in the same spot with no problems and dug several targets.

I guess I was hoping someone might have noticed this happening due to a combination of, say, environment, atmosphere, location, etc.

Anyone else noticed it happening in clusters? I have had hunting partners have it happen and just as perplexed as myself.

At almost 70, I’m trying to avoid those empty holes.

 

[mikeraydj]

Another thing that could be happening is your discrimination. It could be hitting targets on the edge of discrimination. So one way it is hitting high enough to register, but on the other swing it is hitting at a value that is notched out. When this happens I switch to all metal to get a true sound of how the target is hitting. As you said that when you dig them, they are usually trash. This is common on my E-Trac. The nice thing for me is I have a threshold hum that nulls (or goes silent) when I go over any metal that is discriminated out. So I can hear a tone one way sometimes and a null the other. Usually trash.