Is Gold Golden?

[littlehugger]

I have been looking for a new detector or two, and have started wondering about some things.
I am pretty average in my ways, detecting parks, beaches, etc, for coins and jewelry. I try to keep discrimination low, not wanting to reject gold.
It seems gold is not very reactive to detectors, even when I air test my own jewelry. Yet, when you see gold detectors tested, you read about sharp
definite beeps from nuggets less than a gram.
I have also noticed that airport detectors seem to ignore my jewelry. I have been stopped and wanded for small keys, even the buckles of my suspenders, but never for my jewelry.
Would it be some advantage to coin shoot, etc, with a gold machine? I realize there might be trade-offs, but I would be willing to give up bottle caps and pull tabs for more gold. Heck, I would even give up zinc cents! LOL
Another thing. Does the karat weight of the gold have any affect on its reactivity? Is 10kt more or less visible to the detector than 18kt, or 22kt? The karat weight only tells you the gold, but what the heck do they use for filler, and how does that affect us?
Anyone know?

 

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[Treasure_Hunter]

First air tests are not accurate. You say your detector doesn't see your own jewelry, what are you testing it with? Detectors that are seeing tiny gold nuggets were designed to see tiny nuggets, average detector will not see nuggets smaller than about 1/4 of a gram. Average detector will not see a thin gold chain because the chain is not soldered together so it is only seen as individual links, most gold chains links are also hollow, not solid. 10k,12k, 14k are mixed with base metals like [FONT=&quot]silver, zinc and nickel which are all conductive and seen by a detector.[/FONT]

 

[redcobra8u]

I think talking metal detectors at the airport vs. treasure hunting are two totally different subjects all together. The airport detectors focus more on magnetic properties as opposed to the conductive properties. I have a Tag watch that is huge and should blow the alarm but never does. Same for my Rolex but it is much smaller. Both are austenitic stainless which is not magnetic, not ferritic stainless which is. Gold is also not magnetic. This is why jewelry, for the most part won't set off the detector.

I don't know what machine you are using. I can tell you that 10K DOES react differently not only from machine to machine, but from piece to piece since it's mixed with a whole range of different metals. On my AT-Pro 10K will bounce all over the place. Anywhere from iron to foil range. Same for the CTX but it falls into a tighter range. The excal II is the most consistent machine and sensitive if not using discrimination. Some 14K will also move around a bit depending on size (small ring or chain vs. larger ring).

I'd love to pass by bottle caps and pull tabs too but there is no machine that I know of today that will give you 100% certainty that the 1 pull tab you don't dig isn't a small gold ring. The CTX does a good job on the bottle caps unless they are those larger aluminum versions. Then you are back to the pull tab area. If you are hunting a beach that is fairly clean of iron and trash, the Excal II won't leave much gold behind.

 

[TerryC]

TH and Cobra have done a very good job covering the issues. Allow me to add a little more. "General" detectors don't do well on gold chains or necklaces because they are tuned to "coin like" targets. That is pretty much why an aluminum wine cap will (almost) always sound off as a coin. Also, it has been my experience that air testing is accurate IF you are comparing the same type of object. That is to say, if you are looking for a certain lost object, you must use an identical object as a test. Air tests are valid only when testing very similar targets. A BOOK can be written on all the differences involved. ╦╦Ç

 

[littlehugger]

Actually, air tests are probably more accurate than ground tests. Ground tests can be affected by dozens of factors, such as composition of soil, hot rocks, humidity, angle to target, swing speed, detector settings and more. Air tests done consistently can be compared validly.
Ground tests, done on the same ground, same coins, under the same conditions, can also be valid. The tests might not be repeatable by someone across town, but can be compared. So, testing done by the same guy, same soil, same coins, same day, of two different detectors can be validly compared. Nor is absolute depth primary, but knowing the differences.
Also, I was not air testing for depth. I was experimenting with various coins, of all denominations, silver, clad, copper, even old ones like large cents etc, to see where they would fall on the ID scale.
My gold jewelry was barely registering and kept giving the reject tones.
I understand about chains, as I only ever found one over a lloonngg time.
I realize they use lesser metals in gold, but wondered how that affected the detectors sensitivity to it.
My thinking is, gold detectors sacrifice discrimination for sensitivity, and are specialty items that are out of their element outside the gold fields, but I don't know that. Gold prospecting is an entire hobby in itself

 

[littlehugger]

Does the 10k hit stronger than 18k? Are the filler metals more reactive or the gold?
I know about the airport detector. They are tuned the opposite of our detectors. So, why cant I get a detector to ignore steel, iron, chrome, etc? But jump on gold?

 

[Terry Soloman]

Great thread! If you want gold, you must hunt nickles. If you find nickles, you'll find pulltabs, bottle caps, and aluminum screw caps. Gold is only for the tough guys and gals ready to dig it all!

 

[Slingshot]

Once I had the same notion about using a gold machine to coin and ring hunt with, so I sold my Teknetics 9000 and bought a Compass Gold Scanner pro, which was touted to be a combo coin, ring, and raw gold machine. It didn't take me long to realize the error of my ways, and I was stuck with the most chattering machine I've ever detected with, until I managed to sell it to someone who wanted to nugget hunt with it. I don't know how he fared with the GSP, but I was happy to get into a normal coin and ring machine without all the backtalk.

 

[TerryC]

Great thread! If you want gold, you must hunt nickles. If you find nickles, you'll find pulltabs, bottle caps, and aluminum screw caps. Gold is only for the tough guys and gals ready to dig it all!

Very true, Terry! ╦╦Ç

 

[oldkoot]

I use a GM 1000 (Gold Monster) and have found several coins with it as coins on the GM 1000 come in on the gold chance(non ferrous) side of the GM 1000

the GM 1000 is a dedicated gold detector but it works for coins also I have not dug one target yet that is hitting on the ferrous side of the meter on the GM 1000,it discriminates quite well when you are in the auto setting or auto plus setting in the all metal setting it hits on everything but the meter on it works vary good to tell if it is a iron object

 

[oldkoot]

Actually, air tests are probably more accurate than ground tests. Ground tests can be affected by dozens of factors, such as composition of soil, hot rocks, humidity, angle to target, swing speed, detector settings and more. Air tests done consistently can be compared validly.
Ground tests, done on the same ground, same coins, under the same conditions, can also be valid. The tests might not be repeatable by someone across town, but can be compared. So, testing done by the same guy, same soil, same coins, same day, of two different detectors can be validly compared. Nor is absolute depth primary, but knowing the differences.
Also, I was not air testing for depth. I was experimenting with various coins, of all denominations, silver, clad, copper, even old ones like large cents etc, to see where they would fall on the ID scale.
My gold jewelry was barely registering and kept giving the reject tones.
I understand about chains, as I only ever found one over a lloonngg time.
I realize they use lesser metals in gold, but wondered how that affected the detectors sensitivity to it.
My thinking is, gold detectors sacrifice discrimination for sensitivity, and are specialty items that are out of their element outside the gold fields, but I don't know that. Gold prospecting is an entire hobby in itself

air test to me are vary deceiving in my opinion when I tried air testing the detectors I have the X TERRA 705 would not see targets over four to six inches and the AT pro in the same air test would be really good depths but in real hunting I found the complete opposite to be true the 705 in a real hunt side by side with the AT pro will see targets two times deeper than the AT PRO

When my wife and I first got into detecting back in 2009 or 2010 we purchased two detectors the AT Pro and the X TERRA 705 we owned and lived in a house that was built in 1889 it had a back yard that was 3/4s of and acre of land that was fenced in we would hunt together in the yard my wife would hunt ahead of me with the AT PRO I would follow behind her with the 705 she would get targets that were no deeper than six inches and most were in the 2-4 inch range I would go over the same ground rite behind her and I was digging targets that were any where from 7-12 inches with the 705 before digging I would have her come back with the AT PRO and re scan the spot where I was getting the signal and the AT PRO would not see the target at all we did this several time and the results was always the same if the target was over 6 inches the AT PRO would not see it but the 705 would be giving good clean repeatable hits we would dig them up and it would be good coins like mercs and other silvers so like I stated air test to me are vary deceiving its in a real actual hunt that counts for me

 

[against the wind]

I can only give you an example of how different machines operate around gold targets. Most.jewelry manufacturers use Jeweler's brass when molding jewelry. Sometimes different metals are used to attain color. Yellow, White, Pink, Florentine, etc. The percentage of the non gold metal used is determined by the purity of gold used. Eg: 18kt = 75% gold content. That means an 18kt karat ring, will be 75% pure gold & 25% of something else. It has nothing to do with weight when you are talking purity.
I have.used the AT PRO to recover various gold rings, from both water and dirt. I recovered two 14kt, white and gold ladies wedding bands from water, and both times the rings rang up a 65 VDI. A larger, chunky, yellow 14kt, man's wedding band was recovered from the water with a VDI of 63.
A thin yellow 14kt gold and onyx man's ring was dug from dirt with a VDI of 51. (51 - 52 is a perfect nickel signal on the AT PRO) I have heard of thin gold rings being dug with VDI signals as low as 40. So there you have it. From 40 to 65 VDI, and maybe a little higher. Different machines, different gold purities, vast VDI range. (40 - 70)
Conclusion; "Dig It All"

 

[RustyGold]

As pointed out, pure gold is mixed with various metals (dross) to lower the Karat of the gold.

Gold as it comes out of the ground is a pure element that is yellow and relatively soft. That’s your “24 karat gold.” Many people like the yellow color of 24 karat gold, but the lack of hardness can be a disadvantage in jewelery, so it is alloyed with other metals. This affects the color in addition to the hardness. To make white gold, an alloy of palladium and nickel is added to the gold. Jewelers talk about other colors, too: add a little copper for a “pinkish” caste; if you want a “green” tint, add silver. Zinc is added to make the gold harder.

The “karat” tells how much alloy of other metals is used — 18k gold is 75% gold and 25% alloy, 14 karat has more alloy, etc. One might think that yellow gold would always be more expensive than white because it is “purer,” but that isn’t necessarily true. White gold can be more expensive because it’s harder to fabricate. A good gold “manufacturer” is judged by his or her ability to use the different alloys to achieve the qualities desired in jewelry. The head of a ring that holds a gemstone, for example, must be hard but also flexible, so the alloy is important there.

Just so you can really impress the girls at bridge tonight, 24k gold is 99.99% gold, 22k is 91.67% gold, and 20k is 83.33% gold. Those of such high karatage are most often used in Asia and the Middle East. Generally, 20k or higher is yellow in color. 18k is 75% gold and is the most common karatage in Europe. It’s also popular in America and can be yellow or other colors. 18k white gold made with nickel is very hard. 18k yellow gold is softer than its 14k counterpart. 14k gold is most common in the USA and can be yellow or other colors. 14k white gold is harder and used in prong settings. 14k white gold has a yellowish tinge and is often plated with rhodium (a platinum group metal) to give it a white appearance. 12k gold is 50% gold and is commonly used in class rings and can be other color. 10k gold is 41.67% gold and is common in promotional goods. It’s the lowest alloy that can be called gold in the US and it’s very brittle.

Most of this information came from Donald Fogg, of F.D. Fogg Jewelry in Albuquerque, New Mexico

 

[cudamark]

The "visibility" of gold jewelry is dependent mostly on size and shape rather than purity. The I.D. reading will vary all over the board with jewelry, so, if you want it all, you'll have to dig it all. At the beach that isn't a problem..... discriminate out iron and just scoop and go. At a turfed area, you usually need to use some discrimination or go crazy digging foil. With your type of hunting, I'd get something like the new Equinox. For the price, it's hard to beat and will find small gold.