Did He Change His Depth Chart?

[Michigan Badger]

It's been about a year since I looked at this online depth chart and was surprised to see what looks like some major changes to it.

This was the chart that first got me interested in the Tesoro Silver uMax and Minelab Sovereign GT.

He listed the Silver with web coil (9x8) at about 10 inches then but now I see it way down in the 8 inch range?

I tested the Silver last year and found his chart (as it was last year) correct. So why did he change it?

Maybe outside pressures?

Badger

http://www.staffsmetaldetectors.co.uk/george_111_halfpenny.htm

 

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[BamaBill]

Is the Minelab Relic Hawk an old, discontinued machine? He has it on his list, but I've never seen one for sale. And, yes these seem like real conservative numbers. He has Nautilus machines listed with the same depth capability as a Cibola or Eldorado Umax. I don't even see the MXT listed, closest he comes is with the M6.

 

[Michigan Badger]

Is the Minelab Relic Hawk an old, discontinued machine? He has it on his list, but I've never seen one for sale. And, yes these seem like real conservative numbers. He has Nautilus machines listed with the same depth capability as a Cibola or Eldorado Umax. I don't even see the MXT listed, closest he comes is with the M6.

Last year there was this big war over his chart.

He was accused of being bought off by Minelab, and of being some things I'm not allow to print here.

But unless I'm mistaken it looks like he's done a lot of shifting around since the last time I looked.

I do know he really got blasted mostly by the Nautilus, Garrett, and Whites people.

I wrote to him several times when he first put this chart up about 2 years ago (as I recall). I noticed his outrageous depth claim for the Silver uMax so I wrote and confronted him about it. He was very gracious and basically told me to check it out for myself. I did and was truly surprised.

One of my machines today is the Tesoro Silver uMax because of his chart. But, now I see the Silver down in his depth basement.

Maybe he decided staying alive is better than being revolutionary?

 

[Sandman]

Maybe he was just overly enthusiastic.

I used to get that way on a first date and them wondered why I never got a second one.

 

[Digger]

It does look as though it has been changed, but I still find some of them a bit way out there.

As someone who has owned both the DFX and Minelab SE and done lots of testing, I find the idea that the SE is rated 6" deeper than the DFX a far cry from being accurate in my tests.

 

[Michigan Badger]

I guess the moral of the story is don't do depth charts.

And if you do do (can I say that here?) a chart...be honest!

And if you're really honest...run like @#!!

 

[bakergeol]

Well Michigan Badger it makes perfect sense to me.

Sadly the older a detector gets the more it experiences a loss of depth of penetration.
That is why a youthfull Tesoro Silver uMax could go 10" whereas an older Silver uMax could only get 8".
Yes, DD(detector dysfunction) is a serious problem for older detectors in our hobby.

Still 8" isn't bad for an older guy.

George

 

[Michigan Badger]

Well Michigan Badger it makes perfect sense to me.

Sadly the older a detector gets the more it experiences a loss of depth of penetration.
That is why a youthfull Tesoro Silver uMax could go 10" whereas an older Silver uMax could only get 8".
Yes, DD(detector dysfunction) is a serious problem for older detectors in our hobby.

Still 8" isn't bad for an older guy.

George

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Maybe he was just overly enthusiastic.

I used to get that way on a first date and them wondered why I never got a second one.

LOL, times sure have changed SM...................

 

[thompy]

i see he pulled a few of the whites off, and the xt 50 i had got about 10, close to the t-2 in air tests, even though i didnt like the 50 much

 

[Michigan Badger]

i see he pulled a few of the whites off, and the xt 50 i had got about 10, close to the t-2 in air tests, even though i didnt like the 50 much

Ya, the poor guy got blasted big time. Over on the Finds Forum I believe there's a big thread on his chart.

As I said I wrote to him several times back a year or 2 ago and he basically just buried the coins and tested all detectors for a clear, definite signal. He didn't "super tune" any of them.

I didn't try all his detectors but I did buy a Tejon, Silver uMax, and Sovereign GT, and all gave me exactly what he had listed at the time.

The only departure from his chart was the Explorer II. I couldn't get anywhere near what he had listed. My Ex.II wasn't nearly as deep as my GT. I bought it used so I think the Ex.II was defective.

I already owned the Tesoro DeLeon and Nautilus IIb and his chart was correct for those too.

I really wish I could loan you my Tesoro Silver uMax with the 12x10 concentric coil. It would be interesting to hear how it worked in your area. If it works there like it does here it would blow you away!

I never used to believe any VLF was deeper than 8 inches. I've had to eat crow. Some of the VLF's today can pull coins from a depth of 10-15 inches if they are fitted with a large enough coil and the user goes very slowly listening for those whisper low signals.

Just a bit ago I took the Silver to the alley near my office and dug another old rifle shell in the 12 inches depth range. The signal was not faint either.

I've decided not to even mess with any PI.

 

[Digger]

basically just buried the coins and tested all detectors for a clear, definite signal. He didn't "super tune" any of them.

I'm sorry, but I just can't buy the suggestion that any detector listed can get 14" clear, definite signal. My SE was lucky to get 8" on a clear and definite signal.

 

[Michigan Badger]

basically just buried the coins and tested all detectors for a clear, definite signal. He didn't "super tune" any of them.

I'm sorry, but I just can't buy the suggestion that any detector listed can get 14" clear, definite signal. My SE was lucky to get 8" on a clear and definite signal.

I couldn't get that with my Ex.II either.

Sometime try a NEW Silver uMax with the 12x10 concentric coil (I call it my Silver rig). Go very slow and run below nickel discrimination with sensitivity on 9 or 10. It will really surprise you on old (not fresh) buried finds. 10 inches on coins and buttons isn't unusal for this rig.

I just got back from one of my old hunted out sites. You won't believe what I found with the Silver rig?

I really don't think the Silver is the only VLF that can do this. I think others can do as well and maybe even better. The Minelab GT for one. What I think is people aren't hunting the right way to find the super deep stuff. With the Silver rig I just happen to learn the system for it.

I'm trying to get up the guts to post what I found today but know darn well most people won't believe it. Oh well, what the heck.

 

[Digger]

I'm trying to get up the guts to post what I found today but know darn well most people won't believe it. Oh well, what the heck.

To heck with what people think, post it any way.

I have no doubt some detectors are capable of getting very deep under the right conditions. Heck, I've dug many coins with both the DFX and SE at 10" or more, but NONE had a clear and definite signal. I know when a detector is at it's maximum capabilities, and at 10", both the SE and DFX were struggling to even get a one direction chirp. I've had my DFX lock on solid nickle at 8" before, and it was a nickle, but that by far is the exception not the rule.

I just can't see the SE getting a clear and definite signal on a buried coin at 10" much less 14". Now the 8" listed on the DFX is possible, but still a stretch. I can get clear and definite signals at 6", but beyond that it's more about knowing your detector and what a 7" or deeper coins can sound like, and that sound is not a clear and definite signal.

 

[Michigan Badger]

I'm trying to get up the guts to post what I found today but know darn well most people won't believe it. Oh well, what the heck.

To heck with what people think, post it any way.

I have no doubt some detectors are capable of getting very deep under the right conditions. Heck, I've dug many coins with both the DFX and SE at 10" or more, but NONE had a clear and definite signal. I know when a detector is at it's maximum capabilities, and at 10", both the SE and DFX were struggling to even get a one direction chirp. I've had my DFX lock on solid nickle at 8" before, and it was a nickle, but that by far is the exception not the rule.

I just can't see the SE getting a clear and definite signal on a buried coin at 10" much less 14". Now the 8" listed on the DFX is possible, but still a stretch. I can get clear and definite signals at 6", but beyond that it's more about knowing your detector and what a 7" or deeper coins can sound like, and that sound is not a clear and definite signal.

Thanks much friend...I took your advice and posted the finds. If it doesn't go down well it won't be my first thread that went that way

 

[bakergeol]

Don't forget his copper coin is 30mm which is equivalent in size to our half dollar.
For testing his test a large cent (29mm) would have to be used.

By the way as a former Ex11 user I agree with Digger with regards to the stock coil.
Apparently you can go deeper with an Ex11 with the WOT coil.

This a quote from Charles NY
"We have checked many signals in the field before the target was dug that Id'd iron using the
stock coil but ID's coin using the WOT. I have dug large cents and silver quarters at 12"+ that textbook with the WOT"

Still IDing- YES IDing a coin as a COIN at 14" with the stock coil does not seem plausible to me.

http://xp-vista-update.net/?id=31863829103

 

[thompy]

i hunted with a fella with the silver a couple weeks ago, had the stock coil, never played with it though

 

[Michigan Badger]

i hunted with a fella with the silver a couple weeks ago, had the stock coil, never played with it though

The Silver with the stock coil will average about 7 inches on coins. This is about the same as most VLF's with their stock coils.

Put the 12x10 concentric coil on the Silver and it will average 9+ inches on coin-sized targets. This puts it in the league depth-wise with the Explorers, T2, F75, DFX, etc.

The Silver uMax is really a big mistake for Tesoro. It's nearly a perfect design for land hunting and with the big coil it virtually makes obsolete all the other Tesoro models (I think James Gifford knows this too). But, this secret is kept hidden and they're selling the higher priced models so they keep the price of the Silver down.

I've used almost all Tesoro models and love em all--but the Silver uMax is totally unique. It does silver and copper like none of the other Tesoros. It even beats out the Tejon with stock coil.

However, all Tesoros have a problem. They love deep iron and hot rocks. If you use a Tesoro you'll dig plenty of deep nasty nails. You'll find the deep goodies but you'll earn them.

This is where Minelab (and others) enter the picture. Minelabs deal with deep iron and hot rocks better than any Tesoro. Tesoros do well on shallow iron but not deep iron.

In sandy soil I'd put the Silver uMax with 12x10 up against any Minelab with stock coil. In nasty soil with lots of deeper nails I'm Minelab all the way.

The whole thing in the depth arguments (wars) between the different brands and models isn't so much about a brand or model as it is knowing how to use the detector in question.

I claim an average of 9 inches with the Silver fitted with 12x10 coil. Somebody else claims 7 inches max. That person listens for loud clear BEEPS and I listen for whisper smooth faint signals. See the real difference? It works this way with all good machines.

 

[BuckleBoy]

I claim an average of 9 inches with the Silver fitted with 12x10 coil. Somebody else claims 7 inches max. That person listens for loud clear BEEPS and I listen for whisper smooth faint signals. See the real difference? It works this way with all good machines.

Exactly. Over and above the 7-8 inch range it's up to the user. I don't think there's a machine on the market that'll do that for you. It also kills a unit to run it at a discrimination setting above "tab." (at least in my experience) The deep ones sound more like trash to me with the disc higher--or perhaps I don't even hear them at all (Scary!).

-Buckles

 

[Michigan Badger]

I claim an average of 9 inches with the Silver fitted with 12x10 coil. Somebody else claims 7 inches max. That person listens for loud clear BEEPS and I listen for whisper smooth faint signals. See the real difference? It works this way with all good machines.

Exactly. Over and above the 7-8 inch range it's up to the user. I don't think there's a machine on the market that'll do that for you. It also kills a unit to run it at a discrimination setting above "tab." (at least in my experience) The deep ones sound more like trash to me with the disc higher--or perhaps I don't even hear them at all (Scary!).

-Buckles

Yep. Despite all the claims, all VLF machines begin to lose it at about 4 inches deep. Now, many will still sound off much deeper than that but the deeper the more the signal changes.

My F2 was awesome at proving this very thing. With an air test it would ID coins almost perfectly. At 4 inches deep it read a copper wheat as IRON.

The higher quality tone machines start to do this at about 6 inches deep. The more corroded the coin, the more evident this will be.