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  1. #31
    Charter Member
    CANE FIELD BANDITS and IRON BRIGADE MEMBER

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    Re: do you drag the MD on the ground?

    Quote Originally Posted by bscofield6
    As for wooded spots... I would probably spend too much of my time untangling my probe wire and spider like coil from every stick and weed imaginable.
    Yeah, it's a problem.  My Fisher has a spider coil too.  Lost the wing nut off the coil last week in the woods. 


    Quote Originally Posted by bscofield6
    I might even make a detecting trip to KY this fall to see what kind of trouble I can get myself into. A buddy has made the invite. For all I know I will get rocked down there and come home empty handed.
    I'm sure your buddy will show you the ropes.  Hopefully he's the kind of buddy that has a good spot picked out for you two.


    Keep the coil close to the ground and dig the big iron out as you go, and you'll do o.k.  I used to only dig some of it--then found that it masked some great finds and would have to spend a whole day digging it out after I'd cherrypicked the rest of the site.  That sucked!  Now it's just an unsaid rule with the folks I hunt with that we dig the iron out as we go.


    Best Wishes,


    Buckles
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    musket sling hook and trigger guard fragments
    1900-O Morgan Dollar
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    1809 Classic Head Half Cent
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    dateless half real
    1875, 1887 and one dateless Seated Dime
    1848, 1851, two 1851-O?s, 1855-O, two 1857-O, and one dateless half dime
    1895-S Barber Dime (dug by KFB) and 1907 Barber Dime
    1952 Roosevelt Dime
    Two silver thimbles
    Quarter ounce of melted silver from a planation site
    Antebellum silver ring fragment
    1850s silver twin heart ring
    Two Silver religious medallions
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    a dateless Mercury Dime
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  2. #32
    us
    Supreme Chancellor

    Oct 2005
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    Re: do you drag the MD on the ground?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeff of pa
    Quote Originally Posted by MD Dog
    How would you know about the fill dirt and why would they do that ?
    I now have 2 sites where wheats are at 2"

    & Clad & Memorials all the way down from surface to 8"

    Don't find too many wheats there anymore.
    but when I do find them they are Shallow

    but it's obvious fill
    I found a brand new soccer field that is similar. The top 2" are modern items. At 3-4" I was finding 1860s IHs and other household items from that time period. Then at 8" I was finding modern pop cans, etc. Normally not a site I would detect, but I was bored one day and wanted to see if I couldn't find a ring out there.

  3. #33
    us
    Aug 2007
    Pittsburgh, PA, USA.
    White's Vision, White's 6000DI Pro
    1,923
    59 times

    Re: do you drag the MD on the ground?

    I scrub and have also found coins bass ackwards. Older on top, newer deeper.

    I've just watched 2 renovations in parks. Dig, pile the soil, install stuff...push the dirt back and haul the leftover away. Pushing the sod and soil back, lots gets turned upside down...mystery solved.

    As far as fill...another park I was finding coins at exactly 4", old and new.....sitting on top of a gravel bed that is now covered in grass and has a shelter. Pretty obvious it was once the parking lot and the park got rearranged so the shelter could be put in a better spot. Top the gravel with some soil, toss some seed....

    As far as coil covers...I noticed the plastic they use on some of the newer coils looks cheeper, more brittle. Is that my imagination? My old Whites, I never had a cover for the coil and used that thing for years. Never wore through! I just got a 5" coil for my DFX and it looks like a totally different kind of plastic. Maybe I should invest in a cover for it.

    Al

    I think...therefore I am.

  4. #34
    us
    Feb 2007
    East Central Florida WP
    Whites XLT / M6
    2,535
    19 times

    Re: do you drag the MD on the ground?

    Just my 2 cents about something posted here about how far down a coin will sink.

    An object will sink till the density of the surrounding soil meets or exceeds the density of the sinking object.

    Just thought you would like to know.

    Ray S
    Ray S ECenFL

  5. #35
    um
    Feb 2007
    Please don't yell !
    1,770
    14 times

    Re: do you drag the MD on the ground?

    That is what I said Ray, at least that is what I was taught. It's all about the density of the soil vs the coin.

    If a park has older trees, then fill dirt would be obvious, since trees would sit in a depression. Fill dirt on top of older tree exposed roots will kill the tree.
    http://www.thegoldenolde.com

  6. #36
    us
    Sep 2007
    Sweet Home, Oregon
    Primarily my Fisher cz-70 and Compass Relic & Coin, plus many others
    476
    7 times

    Re: do you drag the MD on the ground?

    I have written this dozens of times but somehow people seem don't quite understand it, so here goes again anyway.

    NEVER, NEVER, NEVER SCRUB the #$%^&%& ground with your coil!

    UNLESS you are using an induction balance (IB) or old TR metal detector, And even then you have to be careful not to dislodge the coil windings. Don't do it with a BFO or a BB detector either. And if you don't know what a BB detector is - then you CERTAINLY should heed this advice.

    Now why have I write this so many times? Well, it's because most people do not understand how a metal detector works, even though they may have been using them for the last 30 or 40 years.

    I have posted little graphs, charts, etc, but still this goes misunderstood.

    So here I go one more time;

    When you operate your metal detector, internaly there is a set of parameters that allows you to operate below and above a certain null (null meaning "zero"). If you go above it you begin to operate into the positive. If you go below it you begin to operate into the negative. Anybody knows that operating this way loses depth. It's true with ALL detectors, PI's, magnetic imagers, VLF's, Multi-frequencies. magnetic spectrometers, etc, etc. If you were to be able to ground balance your detector right on the ground then you should also be able to scrub it on the ground too - and keep the same affect. WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!

    The surface of the ground often has more disruptions of magnetically and linearally/randomly distributed minerals of varying types than are found even just below the surface. This is not a joke it is a fact. Many of the surface minerals come from plant life, and many of them are acids (positive) , and many are salts (negative) too, some are even neutral. If you ground balance (AKA "rough discriminate") the detector to within the first 2 inches of the soil surface (1 inch soil, plus 1 inch of grass, etc) then you have ground-balanced the detector to it's max, and I mean it's MAX. If you GB it right on top of the ground though, and use it right on top of the ground - you then have additional interference ("noise") to deal with. This will cause you to lose a lot of depth + plus the normal functions of your discrimination control (AKA "fine-tune ground balance) will suffer too, because the phase shift has been too greatly distorted. . This is not a joke either, it's how your detectors operate. When ground balanced to 1-2" above ground anything past 1" then acts as a surface blanker too, and that in turn makes your detector quit it's heavy breathing by some margin.

    Additionally, the null that your detector is working hard to maintain is NEVER (perfectly) balanced to the ground surface, not even for a nano-second, but instead is ground balanced to only somewhere near it periodically, as in maybe 1/1000 of a second off and on, and besides that, the circuitry is being overdriven to begin with - by the initial surface overload configuration of mass times matrix = resistance. This means simply put, that the detector actually gets less depth dragging it on the ground surface than if you ran it 1" or 2" off the ground. The magical number is this: If you hunt in bare dirt then 1" off the ground is optimim. If you hunt in short grass, as in a well-kept lawn then the depth of search should be 1" of dirt + 1" of grass, or, 2" of search away from the ground. And if you have manual ground balance you should balance it the same too. In other words STAY AWAY FROM THE SOIL. Even with automatic ground balance the same rules apply. Remember, that ALL detectors have at least a little automatic ground balance built into the circuitry, and of not they would never stay tuned, not in a hundred light years. It's just how it is.

    When you fool with Mother nature, she gets even. When you fool with physics you might lose a lot more than a decent paycheck. Having an "opinion" about this does not cut it. Having the facts puts you ahead by one horse's length in a race. DO NOT scrub any of these modern detectors on the ground, unless you just want to wear out the coil cover fast and lose depth, are a meanie enjoying being rough on your detector, or maybe just want screw up your discrimination abilities too.

    You can find the same thing in Jack Gifford's (Tesoro Metal Detector's) notes, and also George Payne's detector engineering notes - about optimum search height. Here is what Charlie Garrett says too. in item #12.

    http://www.brent-krueger.com/garrett2.html

    'Nuff said. Now I'm going to eat some chocolate chip cookies and drink some of this Arabian coffee.

    EasyMoney



    Jacza likes this.

  7. #37
    The.Boomer

    Re: do you drag the MD on the ground?

    Sorry to disagree with you easy, but colombian coffee is better !

  8. #38
    us
    Sep 2007
    Sweet Home, Oregon
    Primarily my Fisher cz-70 and Compass Relic & Coin, plus many others
    476
    7 times

    Re: do you drag the MD on the ground?

    A bird in the hand is better than two in the bush Boomer. When it's hot and tastes good - it's tough to go wrong with it.

    Now where were those cream-filled donuts of mine?

    BTW, I would advise everybody to read Tesoro's detector operator advice. It's right on target, especially the sections on ground balance and operating frequency.

    http://www.tesoro.com/info/faq/generaldetecting/

    Easy $$$

  9. #39
    us
    Supreme Chancellor

    Oct 2005
    High Five!
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    79 times
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    Re: do you drag the MD on the ground?

    Easy,

    When I scrub the ground, I make more finds and deeper finds than when I don't. And I will be detecting with others using the same machine and detecting like you say to detect. You can detect based upon the science of it all and I will detect in the manner that produces the most results. And the most results come from getting the coil as close as physically possible to the ground.

  10. #40
    Charter Member
    CANE FIELD BANDITS and IRON BRIGADE MEMBER

    Jun 2006
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    Re: do you drag the MD on the ground?

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyMoney
    Well then, there you have it bscofield6, there goes that $120,000 I spent going to attend college at OSU to be an Electronics Engineer, plus my Federal employment as an Electronics Mechanic, and also my experience as a metal detector repairman for 10 years, plus my having worked for a well known Metal detector manufacturer in R&D Engineering - designing circuitboards. I'm wondering if I wasted my time and my money too? Maybe that explains why people who have Ace 250's claim they get 12-14" in the ground when their detectors only get 8" in the air.

    It's interesting to know that out in the field people can do the absolute impossible at times, seemingly disregarding the well-known principals of science, mathematics, and physics. Will wonders ever cease?

    Good for you.

    Have a good 'un

    EasyMoney
    Science, Mathematics, and Physics? Who believes in those things anymore? They're all just THEORIES hatched by folks who think they're smart in order to make the rest of the world look Stupid. :P





    P.S.--I got a Seated Dime at 22 inches once with the Ace 150.


    P.P.S.--It is a commonly held Theory that it takes no skill to metal detect plowed fields.
    2021 CaneField Bandits Totals:
    1820s-30s Gold Mourning Brooch
    Diamond solitaire ring from the beach
    GWI 17B George Washington Inaugural Button
    GWI 27A George Washington Inaugural Button
    engraved piece of a colonial era gold item
    c.1870-80 Otis A. Smith .32cal rimfire pistol
    bullet mold "MASS ARMS CO" for the .36cal Adams Patent Revolver
    South Pacific Coast Railroad Lock 1876-1887
    Two Louisiana pelican coat buttons
    hammer from a percussion double barrel shotgun
    Four cartridge box finials
    New York coat button
    Eagle Infantry cuff button
    Two eagle Infantry coat buttons
    Two general service eagle cuff buttons
    musket sling hook and trigger guard fragments
    1900-O Morgan Dollar
    1876-CC Seated Quarter
    1809 Classic Head Half Cent
    1845 Large Cent
    dateless half real
    1875, 1887 and one dateless Seated Dime
    1848, 1851, two 1851-O?s, 1855-O, two 1857-O, and one dateless half dime
    1895-S Barber Dime (dug by KFB) and 1907 Barber Dime
    1952 Roosevelt Dime
    Two silver thimbles
    Quarter ounce of melted silver from a planation site
    Antebellum silver ring fragment
    1850s silver twin heart ring
    Two Silver religious medallions
    Four 1943-P war nickels
    a dateless Mercury Dime
    Bronze figurine from a mid 1800s French mantle clock
    Minieballs, Beefaloes, V and Shield Nickels, and some GawGag

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    Any relics, coins, or other items appearing in my signatures were found on PRIVATE PROPERTY with total consent and permission from the owners of said property.

  11. #41
    us
    Jul 2008
    florida and everywhere....
    Fisher CZ5 Quicksilver
    740
    29 times

    Re: do you drag the MD on the ground?

    Well, interesting posts here.BUT, if I hold my detector "above" the ground, it does not work worth a poo.If I "scrub" the ground, it works flawlessly. Care to elaborate?

  12. #42
    us
    Sep 2007
    Sweet Home, Oregon
    Primarily my Fisher cz-70 and Compass Relic & Coin, plus many others
    476
    7 times

    Re: do you drag the MD on the ground?

    Yes BuckleBoy, I you and I both know that's true. That is a funny one, and so is the one where the guy found a wheatie at 42 inches with his Explorer. He even got angry when people challenged him on it. Some people just don't have a good sense of humor I guess. We all know that that both the 22" story and the 42" one are both true (chuckles). I'm glad SOME of us on here have a good sense of humor.

    Nice one BuckleBoy

    Check this out. Garys has a good sense of humor too. Rememember that the soil in GB has considerously LESS iron in it than our Southern States do. Imagine that. And remember that Gary is one of those very un-experienced detectorists too. None of the detectors there could get a decent signal on a dime-sized coin at 10" - in that wussie soil, except that the Nexus could barely get a signal with it's 12" coil..

    http://garysdetecting.co.uk/hoard_test.htm

    Easy MONEY


  13. #43
    us
    Sep 2007
    Sweet Home, Oregon
    Primarily my Fisher cz-70 and Compass Relic & Coin, plus many others
    476
    7 times

    Re: do you drag the MD on the ground?

    Jody, that doesn't really make a lot of sense. Why would a detector not work well f you held it 1" or 2" off the ground? Is it a $49 Bounty Hunter, with a poor ground balance? Or is it as I said, a TR, etc?

    I'm really interested in your answer. And if it's not the cheapie BH which only gets 1-2" in the ground anyway, or an old TR or BFO which often only got that shallow depth too, then it needs repairs. PM me and I'll see if I can help you repair it.

    BTW folks, "scrubbing the ground" is not the same as "scrubbing the grass", or "scrubbing the lawn".

    Here is another viable site: "Troy Custom Detectors"

    http://troycustomdetectors.com/shado...neralized.html

    Under "General Tips". it reads as follows;

    "Hold coil approximately 2 or more inches above the ground when swinging to avoid overloading the coil due to the high mineralization (this is something that you will have to experiment with to get optimum performance without ground noise)."

    This is of course what I have been saying .. along with all the other Pros who invent and design metal detectors, including Erik Foster, George Payne, Jack Gifford, Dave Johnson, Keith Wills, etc, etc etc.

    If your soil has no mineralization in it then you don't even need a ground balance at all, just an automatic retune and automatic return to threshold. But there is no soil in the USA or on the earth that has that configuration. In La-la land yes, but not on earth.

    EasyMoney
    Jacza likes this.

  14. #44
    us
    Supreme Chancellor

    Oct 2005
    High Five!
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    79 times
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    Re: do you drag the MD on the ground?

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyMoney
    Well then, there you have it bscofield6, there goes that $120,000 I spent to attend college at OSU to be an Electronics Engineer, plus my Federal employment as an Electronics Mechanic, and also my experience as a metal detector repairman for 10 years, plus my having worked for a Metal detector manufacturer in R&D Engineering - designing circuitboards. I'm wondering if I wasted my time and my money too? Maybe that explains why people who have Ace 250's claim they get 12-14" in the ground when their detectors only get 8" in the air.

    It's interesting to know that out in the field people can do the absolute impossible at times, seemingly disregarding the well-known principals of science, mathematics, and physics. Will wonders ever cease?

    Good for you.

    Have a good 'un

    EasyMoney
    I'm not sure where in my post (nor any other post that I have ever made) I was making outrageous depth claims. I simply stated the facts based upon real world results that I have personally experienced. The more air between the ground and the coil with the explorer, the worse it performs. Ask any experienced explorer user this.


  15. #45
    Charter Member
    CANE FIELD BANDITS and IRON BRIGADE MEMBER

    Jun 2006
    Moonlight and Magnolias
    Fisher F75, Whites DualField PI, Fisher 1266-X and Tesoro Silver ?Max
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    Re: do you drag the MD on the ground?

    Quote Originally Posted by bscofield6
    I'm not sure where in my post (nor any other post that I have ever made) I was making outrageous depth claims.
    You weren't. Easy Money was just putting you in that category of people who don't know even the most basic scientific concepts behind our hobby, and don't care to know anything... the same category of folks who make outrageous depth claims because they don't know that Scientific Fact renders their claims untrue.


    (But whether you're that type of person or not, E.M.'s probably just upset at you for blowing off his opinion like it didn't matter.)


    But don't worry, Easy Money. BELIEF is more important than science anyhow. At least that's what our King tells us...





    Have a good un,


    Buck
    2021 CaneField Bandits Totals:
    1820s-30s Gold Mourning Brooch
    Diamond solitaire ring from the beach
    GWI 17B George Washington Inaugural Button
    GWI 27A George Washington Inaugural Button
    engraved piece of a colonial era gold item
    c.1870-80 Otis A. Smith .32cal rimfire pistol
    bullet mold "MASS ARMS CO" for the .36cal Adams Patent Revolver
    South Pacific Coast Railroad Lock 1876-1887
    Two Louisiana pelican coat buttons
    hammer from a percussion double barrel shotgun
    Four cartridge box finials
    New York coat button
    Eagle Infantry cuff button
    Two eagle Infantry coat buttons
    Two general service eagle cuff buttons
    musket sling hook and trigger guard fragments
    1900-O Morgan Dollar
    1876-CC Seated Quarter
    1809 Classic Head Half Cent
    1845 Large Cent
    dateless half real
    1875, 1887 and one dateless Seated Dime
    1848, 1851, two 1851-O?s, 1855-O, two 1857-O, and one dateless half dime
    1895-S Barber Dime (dug by KFB) and 1907 Barber Dime
    1952 Roosevelt Dime
    Two silver thimbles
    Quarter ounce of melted silver from a planation site
    Antebellum silver ring fragment
    1850s silver twin heart ring
    Two Silver religious medallions
    Four 1943-P war nickels
    a dateless Mercury Dime
    Bronze figurine from a mid 1800s French mantle clock
    Minieballs, Beefaloes, V and Shield Nickels, and some GawGag

    OUR 2020 YEAR-END POST
    http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/20...ar-review.html

    OUR 2019 YEAR-END POST:
    http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/20...9-wrap-up.html

    OUR 2018 YEAR-END POST:
    http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/20...nths-late.html

    OUR 2017 YEAR-END POST:
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    OUR 2016 YEAR-END POST:
    http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/20...ml#post5286759

    ARCHIVE OF EARLIER YEAR-END POSTS:
    http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/pe...ml#post6802200


    Any relics, coins, or other items appearing in my signatures were found on PRIVATE PROPERTY with total consent and permission from the owners of said property.

 

 
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