Explorer SE vs SE PRO **UPDATE**

[Jaichim24]

Hey all, I was reading some other posts and googling around trying to find the exact differences between the SE and the SE PRO. When the PRO first came out I had been under the impression that the only difference was the coil. Reading around a bit more, several years later I've found references to slight differences in the grip, a faster processor, updated firmware for 2010, and perhaps (if it's different than the firmware) some differences in the software. I'm a bit interested in the change to the processor, and the firmware/software. If it's a faster processor, it could possible lead to a faster response. The firmware could just be tweeks to the software for better ID and more accurate information relayed, and perhaps better utilization of the faster processor.

I can't find any reference to the actual speed of the process on the SE and SE PRO. I know the eTRAC has a 32bit 48mhz processor. Anyone have this type of information for the SE and SE PRO. Can anyone confirm or support some of the other changes I've heard were made?

My SE is at Minelab being serviced and I may ask about upgrading, just wondering if it'd be worth it, I've heard it could cost between 300-400 dollars.

Thanks,

Jai

 

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[Sandman]

Re: Explorer SE vs SE PRO

How much is your piece of mind worth? To me the features of one or the other matter more than the speed of the processor. You can call Minelab and talk to a tech about it.

 

[stasys]

Re: Explorer SE vs SE PRO

My SE is at Minelab being serviced and I may ask about upgrading, just wondering if it'd be worth it, I've heard it could cost between 300-400 dollars.

Jai they are the same the same the same. you can upgrade to the same if you want, but all explorers the same,yours SE is the same in max. one different is pro coil. good luck Stasys

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Explorer SE vs SE PRO

The faster processor is the screen updating quicker and offers no advantage to finding targets. But that is something Minelab has let customers decide for themself because 99% of people think faster processor is automatically faster recovery... and even if it was, it means NOTHING because most detectors are faster then explorers! But they aren't better... so why? (because there is more to it)

 

[Jaichim24]

Re: Explorer SE vs SE PRO

Hrmm, food for thought. So your thought on how the detector works is that there is no link between it's detecting capabilities and how it relays to you the information it detects? The part that detects is maxxed out and does not utilize the processor? It will always tell you what it detects, but does it quicker with a faster processor? I dunno, seems like the detectors ability to process data and relay it to you should improve the over all ability of the detector.

Would you mind expanding/elaborating a bit? Any tech specs or references/links you could point me to that led you to this information?

Thanks,

Jai

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Explorer SE vs SE PRO

Hrmm, food for thought. So your thought on how the detector works is that there is no link between it's detecting capabilities and how it relays to you the information it detects? The part that detects is maxxed out and does not utilize the processor? It will always tell you what it detects, but does it quicker with a faster processor? I dunno, seems like the detectors ability to process data and relay it to you should improve the over all ability of the detector.

Would you mind expanding/elaborating a bit? Any tech specs or references/links you could point me to that led you to this information?

Thanks,

Jai

The first explorer screen was very slow to update. So if you were in a junky area and you were using digital and hit a target that registered as a "10", then a "28" right beside it, it would take an extra second for the screen to change to 28. So basically what I'm saying is the faster processing that is happening is simply making the screen closer to being in real time like the sound is. Like several other changes made through the years, I believe this was a design flaw and it's nothing more than correcting a problem... but is a good way to market it as being better. Well it is better if you use the screen but I don't, and there is no benefit to it where I hunt, it just wastes time. I have years using an XS, years on an EX II, and now have an SE... and as long as you have a working detector they all operate the same and find the same stuff.

 

[Jaichim24]

Re: Explorer SE vs SE PRO

ahh, neat Explorer history lesson, I wasn't aware of some of the limitations of past models. (my detecting experience began with the SE) I too listen for the tone id before I even look at the digital display. Then I use the numbers to help me decide. (though the sounds are always more accurate)

I'm just curious about the tone id, if the processor wouldn't assist in that? Theoretically, if your variability is 10, the detector, therefore the processor, is taking the electormagnetic signal and assigning a tone id based on various factors it is receiving from the signal. Much like the digital target id's. Wouldn't a faster processor allow for quicker tone id's and perhaps better separation?

I know the actual signal wouldn't change based on the processor, just how information is processed. I was just under the impression that the tone id was a man made calculated process. The more variability the more power needed. I think that's why some of the eTrac users are using that 2 tone detecting technique.

Anyway, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I truly appreciate your feedback. It's just my nature to be curious and ask more and more questions!

Thanks,

Jai

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Explorer SE vs SE PRO

ahh, neat Explorer history lesson, I wasn't aware of some of the limitations of past models. (my detecting experience began with the SE) I too listen for the tone id before I even look at the digital display. Then I use the numbers to help me decide. (though the sounds are always more accurate)

I'm just curious about the tone id, if the processor wouldn't assist in that? Theoretically, if your variability is 10, the detector, therefore the processor, is taking the electormagnetic signal and assigning a tone id based on various factors it is receiving from the signal. Much like the digital target id's. Wouldn't a faster processor allow for quicker tone id's and perhaps better separation?

I know the actual signal wouldn't change based on the processor, just how information is processed. I was just under the impression that the tone id was a man made calculated process. The more variability the more power needed. I think that's why some of the eTrac users are using that 2 tone detecting technique.

Anyway, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I truly appreciate your feedback. It's just my nature to be curious and ask more and more questions!

Thanks,

Jai

I know nothing from a tech. stand point, but my gut says the faster processor had little to do with the recovery, just the screen. I understand the point that can be made about the recovery having to be made faster to get the ID quicker, but the speed in the menu itself was sped up and that doesn't even have anything to do with detecting a signal. I'd be curious to know if the processor actually did change, or it's just a software improvement or an adjustment. Everything I say is just from a user point of view, so is limited, but I can tell you, you can jump from explorer to explorer and use them the same way, and not feel you are gaining or losing anything.

 

[stasys]

Re: Explorer SE vs SE PRO

Jai Theoreticaly you are right, faster processor and new detector possibly would be good but with explorers is what IP said, I have XS and if I use discrimination its on the screen very slow, but if I use no discrimination like I do its fast like etrac. repeated test copying minelab etrac video without any problem, so I believe explorer, Etrac is the same fast without discrimination. try your self copy videos and you will see.

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Explorer SE vs SE PRO

Jai Theoreticaly you are right, faster processor and new detector possibly would be good but with explorers is what IP said, I have XS and if I use discrimination its on the screen very slow, but if I use no discrimination like I do its fast like etrac. repeated test copying minelab etrac video without any problem, so I believe explorer, Etrac is the same fast without discrimination. try your self copy videos and you will see.

Yes, that's something I was going to bring up. I was going to say it might be something like the Safari where Minelab made some choices for you, and like Stasys said on the E-trac maybe locked it in "Fast".

 

[stasys]

Re: Explorer SE vs SE PRO

Jai Theoreticaly you are right, faster processor and new detector possibly would be good but with explorers is what IP said, I have XS and if I use discrimination its on the screen very slow, but if I use no discrimination like I do its fast like etrac. repeated test copying minelab etrac video without any problem, so I believe explorer, Etrac is the same fast without discrimination. try your self copy videos and you will see.

Yes, that's something I was going to bring up. I was going to say it might be something like the Safari where Minelab made some choices for you, and like Stasys said on the E-trac maybe locked it in "Fast".

I think IP etrac have new program ant faster procesor--very little and its true-- for faster discrimintion and faster reaction on screen. But because FBS is FBS and they didnt invented something new, they putted faster procesor just for some discrimination and screen on old explorer. so my point if explorer used without discrimination is the same speed. Stasys

 

[Jaichim24]

Re: Explorer SE vs SE PRO

yep, I agree with you all, I don't think the FBS technology would be improved by a faster processor. I do think that how the detector relays what the FBS technology is seeing may be improved. It seems to reason that if it improves the digital display, it should also improve the tone "display". At least I'm hoping that it will affect the Tone ID as well.

Also, I detect with a 10 variability, and listen for the right tones to dig. I do not believe it would be the case that the detector would detect anything different if I set my variability to 2, or even 1, since the same information is being analyzed. However, perhaps the response may improve? I may test (when I get my detector back) how the response time is when the detector is not trying to assign 10 levels of sound to a signal. If it speeds up, then it stands to reason that a faster processor may improve the tone id with a higher variability setting.

Who knows, but thank you for the feed back, I do appreciate it and the thought put into it.

Jai

 

[Jaichim24]

Well It turns out that my processor may have been going on my SE. I spoke to several knowledgeable people at Minelab and was very pleased with the interaction, answers to my questions, and the degree in which they worked to help solve the problems I was having with my SE. They did a lot of extensive testing to trouble shoot the root cause of the problems I was experiencing.

To clarify on some of the above discussion. Each coil has its own type of mini processor, the coil projects the electromagnetic field and detects everything it can based on the FBS technology. (the 28 different frequencies cycling) It then passes that raw signal up to the control box, which has its own processor. (this processor is a set of boards, a PCU, firmware chip, filters and firmware etc) This processor along with some various electronic filters "processes" the information in conjunction with the firmware and "ID's" it based on the settings your request via the firmware interface, whether it is a tone ID or a digital display. Obviously it takes more processing power to convert these signals into a digital display versus a tone ID. The more variability, the more discrimination, the more processing that is required.

So, the faster the processor, the faster it processes the data the coil (which is always "detecting" full speed/best capability). In turn, a faster processor should increase the response time you get in-between targets, as well as the Tone and Digital signal the detector displays.

All this being said, the tech only had available to him, the same processor specs we have available. Minelab has only posted the specs to the eTrac processor which is 32bit running at 48MHz. I could get from the tech that the original SE processor, is slower than the SE Pro processor, and that the SE processor is different than the eTrac processor. Whether different means one is faster than the other cannot be determined. It could just be a different "chipset" to use computer CPU terminology, but have the same over all processing speed. My personal opinion is the eTrac processor is most likely faster than the SE Pro processor.

Another addition you should know, is that if you replace the processor on your detector, it's just not the processor that gets replaced. Like I mentioned above, it is a set of boards that includes the processor, firmware chip etc. They currently only use the SE Pro processor/board set. So you would get the "faster"processor and most recent firmware etc should you require a replacement or desire an upgrade.

I could not get confirmation on any "2010" firmware, or if there were any differences between the original firmware for the SE or that which is being used for the SE pro. (other than if any changes, new processors would have the SE Pro firmware) My person opinion based on my computing experience (I build computers) is that the firmware would most likely have to be updated to some degree to compensate for the faster processor. (IE needing a new BIOS on your computer to recognize a faster processor) Obviously there are small bug fixes and other tweaks that must have come up. So logic could dictate that some other changes to improve minor things were most likely added to the firmware. However, I doubt the changes would make any noticeable difference, other than the improvement with the faster processor. (which I feel could make a real difference)

Lastly, cost, which will probably turn off most people. Part prices are static and there is no negotiating, the price for the replacement processor/board set is around $375, tack on at least 1 hour labor at around $65 and you're over the $400 mark. Return shipping is a flat $15 UPS 3 day. I had the front keypad replaced (part is around $27.50) the processor set, and the upper cam-lock clamp (~$12) area replaced on my SE and the total came up to $448 including shipping. Just a FYI the foam grip if you want a new one is like $10.50, and the strain relief and connector (what you connect the coil plug to) the part alone costs $50. However, my changes have affectively turned my SE to an SE Pro.

Some additional info: The tech did a full inspection of all the wires and connections and did not find any corrosion. I purchased my SE used from eBay back in 2008, and it was originally purchased in 2006 or maybe 2007. I definitely use mine a lot, but I don't feel I abuse it. However, it does get exposed to plenty of dirt, dust, and mud. The tech did report that the interior of my detector was covered in a fine dust. He said that it works its way in. The speaker is one obvious way in, but he mentioned that the speaker housing also acts as cooling for the processor and interior of the detector. Something to keep in mind should you decide to seal up the speaker. For the majority of my ownership of my SE I did not use a dust cover on the housing, no matter the design I find it adds to the glare so you cannot read the display. For most of the last half of 2010 I did have one on. The tech also said he installed a moisture crystal packet inside the housing which should help prevent moisture affecting the electronics. I thought that was a very nice touch and a sign of their dedication to quality and service.

Well, that's all I can think of to talk about, I hope that sheds some light on some questions you all have and hope it contributes to the knowledge that is out there. If I think of anything else, I'll update this post.

Jai

 

[teleman 2525]

thanks all lots of info to absorb i still love my se pro i go low and slow all metal and just plain listen to the se talk nice to me i,m old and love the slow enjoyable pace the explorers set i hunt to relax after all not in nascar lol

 

[Captn SE]

All this being said, the tech only had available to him, the same processor specs we have available. I could get from the tech that the original SE processor, is slower than the SE Pro processor, and that the SE processor is different than the eTrac processor. Whether different means one is faster than the other cannot be determined. It could just be a different "chipset" to use computer CPU terminology, but have the same over all processing speed. My personal opinion is the eTrac processor is most likely faster than the SE Pro processor.

Your above statement is somewhat contradicting...even though the tech had the same processor specs available to him that we do, you could still "get" that the SE processor is slower than the SE Pro processor

Have you actually tried swinging an SE and SE Pro side by side? Have you gone through the menus and looked at each and every feature between those two machines? I have.... I have put thousands of hours on my SE, and have used an SE Pro in the field for a few hours. Each and every menu is identical. In addition, I could not tell any difference between response time from tone to display. If Minelab had put a newer processor and changed the firmware on the SE Pro, they would have clearly stated that in their advertisement of the SE Pro. That would have been a very marketable improvement list. Unfortunately, they weren't able to state this, because there wasn't any difference. The only thing that changed between those two machines was the advent/release of the new Pro Coil. That's why Minelab renamed the SE the "SE Pro", and put fancy red writing on the side of the machine. I worked as a firmware engineer for 17 years in the aerospace industry. If you make a firmware change and new processor change to any product, it would be instinctive, especially from a business perspective, to document/advertise a new firmware revision and/or processor upgrade. Minelab didn't because they couldn't state this.

There have been clear and noticeably obvious changes(some not as noticeable), both in firmware(menus, features, etc.) and processor(CPU, response times, etc.) from the XS to the II to the SE to the Etrac. The SE Pro was nothing more than Minelab's plan to try and boost sales of the original SE's they couldn't sell because they included those crappy/faulty SE slimline coils. Once they replaced the slimline coils with the Pro coil, their sales of SE's went up. Nothing more. It was just a marketing ploy. Wouldn't you rather buy something that says "Pro"? Minelab is like any other business out there to make as much profit as possible with their products. If there are ever any changes to their machines, believe me, they will clearly state/advertise this to the world. Even if, for example, the only feature added to the firmware was 11 levels of volume instead of 10. They would state this. It's in their best interest.

HH,
CAPTN SE
Dan

 

[Ralph Sun Ray]

Dan is correct. The only difference between an SE and SE Pro is the 11" (actually 10.5") Pro coil vs the 10" Slim-line coil - and - the word "Professional" on the side of the battery compartment. The Pro coil was designed for the upcoming E-Trac but since the E-Trac was not quite ready to release when the coil was finished they put it on the SE, re-named it, and marketed it as the "Pro" - a short time later out came the E-Trac. No soft ware or other changes were made from the Se to the "Pro".

Ralph (Sun Ray)
Sun Ray Detector Electronics