CTX "WATERPROOF" INTEGRITY

locater

Full Member
Aug 13, 2013
149
108
Great Lakes State
Detector(s) used
CTX 3030, Whites GMT, BH Platinum w/ Fisher F5, 11" DD coil
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
I have used my CTX for several weeks now. I have used the standard search programs and am happy with it's performance.

One major reason I purchased the CTX was it's much touted ability to detect submerged up to 10 ft. deep. I live right in the middle of the Great Lakes and it would add another dimension.

The first time I saw the gasket and system to connect and seal the battery pack to the control box I was really disappointed! My honest first reaction was THAT"S IT? THAT"S ALL THERE IS!!!

The gasket, in MY OPINION, is too thin and flimsy for such a critical function.

I am NOT a hydraulic engineer, but, I feel that I have a reasonable amount of common sense and mechanical ability.

In MY opinion the design of such a critical connection should be simple, yet overbuilt!! water especially salt water, and electrical components don't get along well together.

The surface area of the gasket and channel should not be just adequate but HEAVY DUTY!! Adequate compression should be maintained between the two joined surfaces to keep the seal tight in ANY WORSTCASE SCENARIO!

At the maximum CTX depth of 10 feet, there is an outside pressure on that connection of 19.139 pounds per square inch, based on sea water density. Compound that with other adverse forces such as heavy wave action over extended periods, and there is obviously a lot of force behind that water trying to get past that seal!!

I personally feel the gasket and channel it goes into into are much too thin. Given the diameter of the gasket, I can easily understand how a few grains of sand could comprimise the integrity of the seal.

I guess the designers felt the smaller the better. Keep the channel small and use a small gasket to seal it, and there is less chance of water intrusion by sheer diminutive size. I can understand that thinking under perfect conditions. PROBLEM!! Things are not always perfect and as planned. $#!% happens!! That is why good designers/engineers over design and over build at critical points, with worst case scenarios in mind!! I don't believe such was the case with this CTX seal design.

If I were designing such a critical seal, I would first of all, make the gasket and channel larger for two reasons. 1) if any foreign material such as a few grains of sand, should find it's way onto the gasket, there would still be enough debris free gasket area to maintain a seal. 2) It would be easier for the operator to clean and maintain the gasket and channel when they are not so small as to be difficult to work with by hamhanded people such as myself. (I'm not a surgeon)

I would also use a better method of securing the battery pack to the control box.

Gaskets, to be effective, require adequate compression to maintain a proper seal. I would NOT use the current latches, I would use a screwdown type fastener to maintain compression of the two surfaces.

I realize that many CTX users have detected with the unit fully submerged with no problems. I also know many others have experienced water intrusion, some attributed to sand on the gasket.

The mindset seems to be that, with ideal cleaning, and ideal use conditions the system works. It's NOT an ideal world! sometimes spotless cleaning isn't possible when changing batteries at the beach, sand is everywhere!!

My point is that the current seal MAY be adequate, but, it could and should be better!!

As I said earlier, I AM NOT a hydraulic engineer, but, I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express!!

KEEP YOUR COIL LEVEL AND YOUR CONTROL BOX DRY!!!!!
 

Scanman

Full Member
Jul 27, 2013
165
30
NW MI
Detector(s) used
Cortes, Lobo Super Traq, Golden Umax 2.0
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Thank you for your honest assessment of the seal issue. I like the feature set of the CTX, and I like the concept of one detector to learn that will do 95% of my detecting needs. But I will have to pass until the seal issue is remedied.
 

mercury1

Bronze Member
Mar 9, 2012
1,649
533
New York
Detector(s) used
Garrett Ace 250, AT Pro
Primary Interest:
Metal Detecting
Locater, everything you've said sounds reasonable. I don't own a minelab but just reading on the forum gives me the impression that the design is flawed and there doesn't seem to be a great sense of urgency about addressing it, which I find surprising.
 

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locater

Full Member
Aug 13, 2013
149
108
Great Lakes State
Detector(s) used
CTX 3030, Whites GMT, BH Platinum w/ Fisher F5, 11" DD coil
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Hi mercury1,
In practicle terms the design MAY be adequate if circumstances remain ideal. Those circumstances being, that is cleaned perfectly, the tiny gasket is inserted perfectly, it is not pinched when inserting the battery pack etc. I just think it could certainly have been designed much better.

As to addressing it, I'm not sure what can be done! Minelab committed to that design and the gasket channel is molded into the control box case. The only way to change that would be to redesign it and make the channel bigger to accept a bigger gasket. THEN, the battery pack casing would have to be redesigned to make the rim or flange that goes into the gasket channel fit. I don't see that happening. Anything to make it better is probably going to have to be adapted to the current system.

The most logical "fix" I saw was to use silicone grease on the joint to ensure no water intrusion occurs. Warranty issues were suggested if you went that route. I guess it is what it is!

It reminds me of the Excaliber knob issue. I inquired if the breaking knob issue had been resolved last year. I was told that the knobs were "designed" to break because people were overturning them. I was told it is better to have the knob break than ruin the internal control when overturned. That's true, but to me the logicle thing to have done is build a turn limiter into each control to PREVENT it from being overturned. Then the knob could be built strong enough so as not to break. Goes back to my original post. Designs of critical components should be overdesigned and overbuilt for durability, with worst case scenarios in mind.
 

Treasure_Hunter

Administrator
Staff member
Jul 27, 2006
48,301
54,443
Florida
Detector(s) used
Minelab_Equinox_ 800 Minelab_CTX-3030 Minelab_Excal_1000 Minelab_Sovereign_GT Minelab_Safari Minelab_ETrac Whites_Beach_Hunter_ID Fisher_1235_X
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I have talked to Minelab about the CTX gasket issue, they said there was no plans to redesign it, if the gasket is cleaned and replaced properly it would not fail.... I know some are having issues with failures, but I also know some who hunt in the water with it and not having any issues, but they clean the gasket everytime it is removed and double check it when replaced to be sure it is sealed. They also have replacement gaskets for it so they do not try to use the same gasket forever.... If I owned a CTX I personally would use silicone lube on it as an added precaution.....

I replaced the knobs on my excals (2) with after market knobs a long time ago and have no issues with them since....
 

Sandman

Gold Member
Aug 6, 2005
13,398
3,992
In Michigan now.
Detector(s) used
Excal 1000, Excal II, Sovereign GT, CZ-20, Tiger Shark, Tejon, GTI 1500, Surfmaster Pulse, CZ6a, DFX, AT PRO, Fisher 1235, Surf PI Pro, 1280-X, many more because I enjoy learning them. New Garrett Ca
Primary Interest:
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The CTX was not designed to be idiot proof. People get sand on the gasket, over tighten knobs, bang the coil on rocks, and such. As you said, water pressure can exceed the pressure at 10 feet with a wave. I feel that the price was inflated to pay for the repairs that would come in. An after the warranty, your on you own to get another throwaway detector. I will stick with what has worked for me when diving to over 100 feet with no leaks.

Save a nickel on the gasket, lose lots of customers and reputation.
 

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locater

Full Member
Aug 13, 2013
149
108
Great Lakes State
Detector(s) used
CTX 3030, Whites GMT, BH Platinum w/ Fisher F5, 11" DD coil
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
I think in the design phase of many products designers/engineers are too quick to get a product to market! Them thar metal detectorists got pockets full of gold, LET'S GIT IT!! Once the initial design is made, that's the time to sit back and look at the drawing board and think about the WHAT IFS. What if a latch should inadvertantly become undone while operating underwater, I know I'll replace the latch with a screwdown fastener, problem solved. What if I made that gasket channel a little too small to clean easily, I know I'll make it bigger, any remaining sand will be easier to see and a larger gasket surface will provide a better seal. Problem solved. What if I put a turn limiter in the control so it COULD NOT be turned too far, then I wouldn't have to tell you I designed the knobs to break if it is turned too far.

When paying such large sums of cash to purchase these products, I only think it is reasonable to expect that the designers anticipate problems. Purchasers SHOULD NOT have to buy aftermarket knobs etc., to make it right. Once again, in best circumstances the CTX is waterproof, but with a little aforethought in the design, make it easier to maintain, and things like silicone grease would not be needed. Just my opinion, you CLOSE THE BARN DOOR BEFORE THE HORSES GET OUT, NOT AFTER!!
 

beerguy

Bronze Member
May 6, 2004
1,138
1,174
Camano Island, WA
Detector(s) used
CTX3030,
Many more on a rotating basis.
Park Ranger and Pack Mule pouches by Freeloader!
I am on the fence regarding the CTX as well. I would love to get one if there were people raving about the quality, but that is not what I see on this forum.
 

cudamark

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Mar 16, 2011
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The problem I see using the silicone grease is that it REALLY attracts the sand. If you leave it "dry" you can blow the sand away with compressed air. You get sand mixed into the grease and you'll be spending lots of time cleaning that mess up.
 

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locater

Full Member
Aug 13, 2013
149
108
Great Lakes State
Detector(s) used
CTX 3030, Whites GMT, BH Platinum w/ Fisher F5, 11" DD coil
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
That's a great point cudamark. Cleaning the small gasket and channel could become more difficult with silicone grease on it, and as you say, it could become a sand magnet.

Compressed air would most certainly be helpful in cleaning out a dry gasket channel. At the beach you could use a can of compressed air as used to clean computers and such, it would cost a few bucks. It is obviously crucial to get every grain of sand off the gasket, and out of the channel.

Of course you would have to have full confidence in the ability of that gasket alone, but adding the grease which would give that added measure of sealing, and confidence would surley make cleaning MORE difficult than it is already. Wish I had the surefire solution to an absolute guarantee of a perfect waterseal and easy cleaning.
 

davemcc

Jr. Member
Sep 11, 2009
50
12
Brandon, FL
Detector(s) used
CTX 3030, CZ-3D, CZ-5
I have talked to Minelab about the CTX gasket issue, they said there was no plans to redesign it, if the gasket is cleaned and replaced properly it would not fail.... I know some are having issues with failures, but I also know some who hunt in the water with it and not having any issues, but they clean the gasket everytime it is removed and double check it when replaced to be sure it is sealed. They also have replacement gaskets for it so they do not try to use the same gasket forever.... If I owned a CTX I personally would use silicone lube on it as an added precaution.....

I replaced the knobs on my excals (2) with after market knobs a long time ago and have no issues with them since....

Cleaned and replaced?? Does minelab provide any recommendations as to how often? Do they expect me to pop a new gasket in after every few hunts at $20 a pop? And the more I handle this thin gasket the more I increase it's chances of failing. Having minelab telling us to handle the gasket sounds almost as if designed to fail is written all over it.
 

Sandman

Gold Member
Aug 6, 2005
13,398
3,992
In Michigan now.
Detector(s) used
Excal 1000, Excal II, Sovereign GT, CZ-20, Tiger Shark, Tejon, GTI 1500, Surfmaster Pulse, CZ6a, DFX, AT PRO, Fisher 1235, Surf PI Pro, 1280-X, many more because I enjoy learning them. New Garrett Ca
Primary Interest:
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I might have a solution to the CTX leaking. Fisher had a problem with the rubber seal on the pinpoint button on the faceplate of the CZ-20 leaking when the rubber got dry rot. I smeared silicone sealant over the button since I don't use the pinpoint anyway.

What it you smeared Shoe Goo Repair in a thin layer on the seam after you close up the seal? The Goo would be easy to scrape off to open the door to change the batteries. But this is not the best solution. Minelab should provide a thicker O ring that gets compressed like Tesoro, Garrett and White's do to the water detectors.

NRA5.JPG
 

Jason in Enid

Gold Member
Oct 10, 2009
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Just for clarity, your pressure calculations are off. You are giving the total PSI if there was a 100% vacuum inside the battery compartment. Since the battery compartment would be sealed (closed) at roughly 1ATM, you already have ~15 psi inside and ~15 psi outside. At the maximum depth of 10 feet you have an additional 5 psi of pressure on the outside trying to force water into the detector.

All that explaining basically means there is almost no tolerance for pressure changes. I would still love to own one for dirt and beach hunting, just not for water hunting.
 

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locater

Full Member
Aug 13, 2013
149
108
Great Lakes State
Detector(s) used
CTX 3030, Whites GMT, BH Platinum w/ Fisher F5, 11" DD coil
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
I'll take your word on that one Jason. I got my figure from a website with underwater pressures at depths, I must admit I have no idea what internal pressures are pushing outward. Thanks
 

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locater

Full Member
Aug 13, 2013
149
108
Great Lakes State
Detector(s) used
CTX 3030, Whites GMT, BH Platinum w/ Fisher F5, 11" DD coil
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Sandman, I think that is a great idea! In my memories of using that kind of stuff, it does indeed peel of pretty clean. I agree, it's not the final solution, but a worthwhile stopgap measure.
 

Silverfishin

Greenie
Jan 28, 2013
11
10
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
I cleaned my O-ring and grooves added a fine layer of silicone to O-ring, install and then replace battery. I add a fine layer of silicone grease to all threads on the main cables and screw caps. Then we go shower together to get clean. No problems here, even had it submerged in a fresh water lake. All good. I put a rubber band around the latches by the battery for extra protection. I agree the O-ring area is a little touchy but there are a lot of CTX owners that have zero problems. I love mine.
 

Bart@Big Boys Hobbies

Supporting Vendor
Supporting Vendor
Jul 24, 2005
4,587
1,215
Moore Oklahoma
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Call for your Treasurenet special discount! Be sure to mention Tnet when you call!
Primary Interest:
Metal Detecting
I cleaned my O-ring and grooves added a fine layer of silicone to O-ring, install and then replace battery. I add a fine layer of silicone grease to all threads on the main cables and screw caps. Then we go shower together to get clean. No problems here, even had it submerged in a fresh water lake. All good. I put a rubber band around the latches by the battery for extra protection. I agree the O-ring area is a little touchy but there are a lot of CTX owners that have zero problems. I love mine.

Good post here! I have had my person unit under many many times. I check things over before and after every dunk with 0 problems. I little bit of preparation goes a long way.
 

nov2101

Sr. Member
Jul 6, 2012
471
336
NW CT
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Whites Spectra V3i with 2x3" eclipse, 6" DD,12" DD & 12"Hot shot.
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Mind if I jump in? I am interested in buying the CTX Minelab. I dive apx no more than 20 feet and more in the range of 10 to 15 feet. Can this unit handle/do it? I always clean out my Whites PI unit channel with q-tip and a little silicone grease. I called Minelab today and any deeper than 9 feet it would void the warranty. Please opine and if anyone has gone deeper with this modal ....
 

cudamark

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Mar 16, 2011
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San Diego
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XP Deus 2, Equinox 800/900, Fisher Impulse AQ, E-Trac, 3 Excal 1000's, White's TM808, VibraProbe, 15" NEL Attack, Mi6, Steath 920ix and 720i scoops, TRX, etc....
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
I cleaned my O-ring and grooves added a fine layer of silicone to O-ring, install and then replace battery. I add a fine layer of silicone grease to all threads on the main cables and screw caps. Then we go shower together to get clean. No problems here, even had it submerged in a fresh water lake. All good. I put a rubber band around the latches by the battery for extra protection. I agree the O-ring area is a little touchy but there are a lot of CTX owners that have zero problems. I love mine.
At home, the would work fine when it comes to cleaning everything up. My concern was swapping batteries out in the field where you can't do that. Anyone who's owned and used an Excalibur knows what I mean. That grease really attracts the sand, and if you drop the battery in it, you're forever trying to get it clean enough to use.
 

nov2101

Sr. Member
Jul 6, 2012
471
336
NW CT
🏆 Honorable Mentions:
1
Detector(s) used
Whites Spectra V3i with 2x3" eclipse, 6" DD,12" DD & 12"Hot shot.
Minelab CTX 3030 with 6" DD. 11"& 17"
2@Vibebra pin point probes
Primary Interest:
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Roger that Cudamark, how deep have you dive with it? What is your opinion on potential depth?
 

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