Serious Treasure Hunters Only

[45th_Johnny]

Hello, my name is Johnny and I was a serious treasure hunter who was born in Louisiana, but now lives in Mississippi. I am 71 years old and have searched for treasure most of my life. I have helped or have found treasure of one kind or another. I would like to give you the benefit of that knowledge and my vast library, only if you want it. I am here to help, again only if you want it. I will check back every day, several times a day for as long as I can. I have personally searched for treasure over most of the continual United States. I have had my successes and failures. What you do with the information is up to you. CAUTION: Some of my information has led to prison for a few, so please follow all laws in place.

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

Ok, I'll bite I'm 56. What info do you want to pass on to the next generation ?

 

[smokeythecat]

Hi, I'm in Maryland with easy access to Delaware and PA. I will not trespass, so .... if you have anything thisaways.....

 

[wingmaster]

Any Indiana info would be appreciated. HH

 

[45th_Johnny]

Actually I was hoping you would use specific questions. Tom_in_CA, There Sir Francis Drake's Treasure, one of my favorite. smokeythecat, There is Hagen's Tavern. wingmaster, Hunting County: Silver Creek treasure.

P.S. Tom, there was a map for that one.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... Tom_in_CA, There Sir Francis Drake's Treasure, one of my favorite......

Ahh, the Sir Francis Drake legend, eh ? I'm going to go out on a limb here and surmise that the caliber of "tips" you are wanting to pass on to the next generation is the "lore" and "legend" caliber stuff. Eh ? And sure "maps" for all-such campfire stories no doubt circulate. (Lost Dutchman, etc....)

But I do notice that in your OP you say you've had successes. Did you mean caches ? Or were you referring to individual coin-hunting ? If you meant caches: Were any found chasing these fabled old-time stories? Or were they just personal local history for your area ? Eg.: Tips from the next-of-kin, etc.... Or perhaps ones you found digging larger signals around old cellar holes or whatever.

 

[P.ALLEN]

I like books, the older the better, that's where the gold is (in research). Old library books, local one of a kind ones are not on the internet and they have all the hotspots the locals knew. Good on ya brother, you ain't done yet.

Michigan here, love Tupelo though.

 

[45th_Johnny]

Tom, I am sorry, I am looking for "Serious Treasure Hunters". I had a map, and they are still out there, I lost mine in Hurricane Katrina. It was a cryptic map that pointed to the general location. I no longer live in California, and have no interest in going back.

P.S. the only reason I "LIKE" a post is not because I "LIKE not reading it again."

 

[45th_Johnny]

P.ALLEN, Is that like in Port Allen, LA, or like Paul Allen the person? "Michigan here, love Tupelo though." Is that Michigan as in the state or a city? Tupelo as in the city Elvis was born in? Please try to pin point what you would like to know.

Note to all who read this: I do have a moral obligation not to give you information that others, not on this forum have searched me out and asked for, usually person to person. I may have only received a free meal or other compensation based on the information or items found. My usual fee has always been a contribution in my name to a charitable organization, The Masonic Children's Home in Alexandria, Louisiana. ALSO: If I am short with some of you it is only because I have had over thirty-six surgeries and I will learn within the next two weeks if I will have another. I have lived my life to the fullest and have many regrets, but more fond memories.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Tom, I am sorry, I am looking for "Serious Treasure Hunters"......

So the definition of "serious" treasure hunters, are those who believe in the camp-fire lore type legends. Right ? You recall all the treasure magazines from the 1970s were chalked FULL of "lost mine" and "stolen stagecoach" loot stories, right ? Some even had maps. After awhile, they all started to sound the same:

"The dying miner pulls himself into the wild west saloon. The lone survivor of an indian attack. As curious onlookers surround him, he spills the story of his fabulous treasure (or mine or whatever). Here are the 4 clues. They rush him to the doctor, but he dies before being able to reclaim his riches".

All those stories were so fun to read. And so iron-clad bullet proof true, eh ? A buddy of mine even submitted one of those stories. To get the $50 article-acceptance publication fee. All made up fancy. But .... throw a few faded newspaper clippings into it, a few true names and dates, and a drawing of a miner posed next to his burro, and by golly: It MUST be true. We got a good laugh wondering if anyone ever went looking for it.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

In your O.P., you alluded to successes. Have you found any caches ?

 

[45th_Johnny]

Tom, I have had a few very good Successes. I am not asking anyone to send me money, just questions.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Tom, I have had a few very good Successes. I am not asking anyone to send me money, just questions.

Johnny, I knew/know you are sincere. It comes out in your posts. No problem. I too (at 56) am already "seeing the lights on the end of the runway". And after ~40 yrs. of this (started as a teenager) relish the fun of bringing the next generation up-to-speed. Just as I used to pepper the old-timers (who had started in the 1960s) with questions when I was first starting this hobby in the mid to late 1970s, so too do I now find new-comers asking me questions about the "old days". So they know where has already been pounded , versus spots where we never got onto or found or whatever.

But as you can tell: I don't put much stock into treasure legends (eg.: oak island, lost-dutchman, francis drake, etc....). Thus my question to you is: a) are any of the successes you speak of "caches" ? Or were you referring to individual coin-shooting ? b) and if caches, were any of them ever the "legend" category ? Or just local research (family with suspicions grandpa buried something blah blah) ?

Because despite how much fun it is to read about the legends (there's an entire subsection dedicated to all the different legends here on T'net), yet you'll notice none ever seem to be found. It's all just talk (no doubt telephone game gone awry). So I'm of the opinion that if someone is going to angle for caches (as opposed to fumble finger individual coins), then the LAST thing they should mess with is the yarns of Yamashita, pearl ship, lost dutchman, and so forth. Yeah, fun to read. But you'll notice that whenever caches ARE found (that show up on banner for instance), they're typically mom-&-pop caches someone dug while simply investigating hubcap sized signals around ruins. NOT "solving cryptograms" or "treasure maps", and "funny turtle squiggles on rocks", etc....

So when you'd said "Francis Drake" I immediately wondered if this is the caliber of what you're passing on. If so, fine. But just sayin .......

 

[45th_Johnny]

Tom, honestly there have been two world class finds. One group went to prison, because one of the crew pawned part of the treasure. The other one was handled by professionals who have made publicly announced finds and decided not to go that route again. It was kind of a give and take thing. They told me what treasure I should not look for and I told where to go and find what they were looking for. All of them were legends, until proven to be facts. As it I am sure with Drake.

As I recall the treasure was located in a place that was out of the question to try and recover. If you told the owners of the property, they would have recovered it and you would not receive anything in return, so I gave up on it. It was fun to do, but I had "More Time Then Money." If you want to try and solve it, I will try to find the name of the map.

You can take part in this forum if you want.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I will look into any sir Francis Drake treasure you want to commission me on. I'm ~2 hr. south of Drakes bay But if the source of the material and map you send me seems to be the caliber of the stuff from the 1970s treasure magazines, I'm going to have my doubts. Eg.: He-said-she-said type telephone game stuff. Unless it is some source material (that you can document the source of your info), then I would lump it into the camp-fire-lore stuff.

The west coast, during Drake's time, was at the REMOTEST ends of the world, so-to-speak. Because the currents went south, not north. So exploration up the coast of Alta CA (and into Oregon, Washington, etc... direction) was extremely rare and infrequent. Very easy for ships to return southbound back to the mother country of Mexico, but very difficult for ships to ply northwards. It was almost faster to cross the entire ocean to the Philippines (the Manila trade route) and then skirt the CA coast on the way south bound. And/or faster to simply walk north from San Diego, as it was to try to take a ship northbound along the coast.

So you almost have to ask yourself: Why in the HECK does some Drake dude come all the way to the most remote area on earth (at the time), to ... what ... bury his stuff ? It's just not making sense. Not saying that "impossible unlikely things don't happen", but ... at a certain point, .... you have to wonder if it's just not "lore".

If you were to look at all the dug artifacts of the CA missions (which, yes, I know post-date Drake) you would see that they have ZERO gold coins or objects. They all have some reales in their dug collections (past archie digs) . But zero escudos. Of hundreds of reales found here by md'rs (some getting into the earliest ground-zero mission locations of the 1770s) they are all silver reales. I have only ever heard of 3 or 4 escudos being found. And those were all Mexican era (post 1822), not Spanish era.

So what does that tell you about the Spanish missions and explorations of our coast ?? That contrary to the "colorful legends" of "filthy rich gold laden missions", this was NOT the case. They were doing good just to get shipments of trinkets for the mission effort. Thus the Hollywood image of stores of gold rooms is simply fancy. Perhaps in Mexico city or wherever the gold was coming from heading back to Europe (ala Mel fisher's wreck, etc....). But not so in Alta CA. The shipping traffic was NOT going to Europe from the south American gold producing regions. Any ship traffic skirting our coast here in the pre-mission era, was returning manila galleons. And those had GOOD aboard them (porcelin, wax, silk, spices, etc....) NOT gold and silver. Any gold and silver they'd have had was going TO the Asia trade markets to BUY the goods. And returning with goods, not gold and silver. Any other explorations (that explored north into what is now Canada etc...) was explorations.

Do flukes exist ? Sure. But I'd be very discerning of any treasure story along the time-period that you are talking about (Drake). It just defies normal logic. I'd have to see the sources for the story. And if you say a map, ok, where did the map come from .

 

[Tom_in_CA]

example of "I have a map": You know how there's hardcore believers in the Lost Dutchman mine story, right ? And guys are always convinced they're onto something blah blah. Well one time a fellow showed up to talk with other hardcore believers, boasting that "he had a map". But he was clamming up and wouldn't show them. Yet boy-howdy he talked up his map, boasting that he was on the verge of finding the vast treasures, etc....

Well it eventually turned out that his "map" had come straight from the pages of some back issue of a treasure magazine. Just fanciful author rendition, akin to something you could probably get off the back of a Captn' crunch box.

Or how about the "maps" that circulate about Yamashita legend ? And each one is iron-clad bullet proof authentic right ? Hundreds circulate, each with stellar credentials (passed down , through the family generations, from a soldier who saw the treasure buried). And you can buy treasure maps on the street corners in the Philippines. Each is the "one true" map. All the others are spurious. See ? And as you hear the story spun on the origination of each "map", it will be spell-binding, convincing, etc....

But as you can see, there is NO WAY that "hundreds of conflicting contradicting" maps are all true. Yet each one of the map holders is quite sincere "they've got a map". And will spin the story of the stellar lineage of it. How can anyone doubt ? But with a little scrutiny, you can see how they are just fanciful drawings by over-zealous starry eyed treasure hunters. Add a little telephone game and presto, you've got yourself an authentic treasure map

I'll take a look at whatever you want to have me evaluate. But just be aware: The sign of a TRUE treasure hunter, is one that will ask the hard-questions, and seek the "more plausible explanations". NOT the guys who believe everything they're told/shown with zero scrutiny and dreamy eyed visions.

 

[45th_Johnny]

Exactly, If you research Drake, you will find that had deposited his gold, I think along the South American coast and captured a silver ship farther north. The silver was off loaded in San Francisco Bay and the ship returned south where he picked up the gold and returned home. This is all kind of fuzzy to me, as I do not have my notes anymore. If you would like to check into it on your own, please send me a P.M. and I will try to give you what I recall and you can decide if you want to run with it. The last time I was in San Francisco was in the 70's. I was taking some courses in geology and panning for gold on the weekends. The most gold I ever found was in the Yellow River at a park in Sacramento. Now I am not sure if that was the name of the river or not. Like I said P.M. me if you want to run with it. I have to decide some time in the next couple of weeks if I want or have to have my next surgery or not. Not sure what the island was he dropped off at. It is late and my sleeping pills are kicking in. Good night.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... If you research Drake, you will find that ....

I have just read the wiki account, and a few others, of the life and travels of Drake. Nothing about any supposed treasure buried on is Alta CA trip. Only some mention of south america treasure buried on a beach. When ....... upon his arrival there ...... his ships were not waiting for him. But nothing of North America Treasure.

So that makes me wonder the source of any research one could find , where a supposed Alta CA "treasure" was said to be. You've got my PM info (just click on my name/avetar, and click "Send PM"). But if there is no source of the info, other than someone's fanciful musings, then I would put no stock into it.

 

[P.ALLEN]

P.ALLEN, Is that like in Port Allen, LA, or like Paul Allen the person? "Michigan here, love Tupelo though." Is that Michigan as in the state or a city? Tupelo as in the city Elvis was born in? Please try to pin point what you would like to know.

My brother is named Paul Allen, lol. Patrick here. Michigan as in the State, Tupelo as in where Elvis was born. I work primarily in locating 1812 sites and trails. I'm from Kentucky so I have a lot of love and respect for the Kentucky Volunteers who were basically tricked by their commanding officer Gen Winchester, then subsequently scalped and the survivors forced marched (Bataan style) up north and over to Fort Malden in Ontario. Hull's Highway stuff, found some shoes and tack parts along areas where the trail used to be, but always looking for more info. I also have a friend down in Gallatin TN, who just got into relic hunting who is always looking for the info/locales for the old "Stations" and civil war troop movements throughout the area, Franklin TN had a CSA training staging area( they eventually moved up and into the engagement in Mundfordville Kentucky. Went camping there along the river/canoe trip. Stayed on this sandbar near an old ford. Middle of the night we heard the clip clops of multiple horses moving down the road and into the river...lights on...nothing there..no tracks..not a thing..never got back to sleep that night. Lotta fellas died in that river. Thanks for the response

 

[45th_Johnny]

P. I must have ESP. I love your post. I am about to leave for a doctor's visit, and should be back later today.

Tom, same goes for you.

Later I hope.