Freakiest Lady Liberty (cleaning note added, Post 18)

[tigerbeetle]

I recently began cataloguing my large cent, some 200 of them and made an amazing find within a find.
Having never been much on foreign colonial coins, I had not cleaned up past finds that were British in origin. To make a proper account of the LCs I’ve found over the years, I decided to restore my forsaken foreigners, mainly the ones not actually corroded; coins that are caked in dirt but don’t have the coin surface compromised.
As I’ve noted in recent posts, we have very forgiving ground here in Southern New Jersey, where an electrolytic relationship between copper coins and naturally occurring iron in the soil often protects the coin better than most places in the country. I bring that up as a segue into an outstanding oddity I found upon a British “Britannia” large cent specimen. The full impact of the find is enhanced by the decent condition of the coin.
As I began restoring it, I went to the obverse side, where the famed seated Goddess of Liberty reigns, above the date. I first Q-tipped (special chemicals in the cotton) the date. I saw it was a very common 1775, so I sped up, abandoning some of the meticulous care I usually use when properly restoring a coin – without cleaning it. Yes, there is a huge difference. Cleaning a coin is the kiss of value death.
It was at the top of the large cent coin, head level, that I noticed something super weird. Lady liberty had a well-marked arm coming out of her head. That didn’t seem quite anatomically correct – even for a lithe goddess. This was a big error. So big, I even imagined some sort of symbolic meaning being forwarded by the original minters. Fat chance. What was being said by those England coin-makers was “We’re sending these coins to the colonies. We don’t care if they’re total crap.”
After my arm-headed discovery, I then carefully restored the entire obverse. Not only did I have a coin with a freaky lady but also a double date that had so much separation between the two dates they need long-distance service just to talk to each other. Check it out:



Obverse also has some weird errors -- as the king's number is up (his nose).

[trish76642]

that is a strange looking coin. Interesting....

[zztop357]

WOW, thats a little freaky. Does the back have the same problem?
HH, zztop

[tigerbeetle]

The king side of the coin has no such weirdness, i.e. errorness. I have to restore it a bit then I'll put a pic in here.

[BuckleBoy]

Some would disagree about cleaning dug coppers vs. value. If coppers are rare enough, they command a premium Regardless of whether or not they're cleaned. In fact, careful cleaning of a dug colonial can actually improve its worth.

That said, this coin could hold some value.


I will send Don in SJ the link to this post. It'll be interesting to hear what he says.



Regards,



Buckleboy

[Zephyr]

Looks like it was struck twice when being minted. You'll have coin collectors drooling after that one....

[romeo-1]

That would nearly be a find of a lifetime for me! Great post!!!

[Iron Patch]

Lets see the other side of that badboy! aka "Lady Britannia"

[curbdiggercarl57]

So come one you Treasure Net geniuses, someone has to announce that that coin is a real rare one. I've seen posts by knowledgeable large Cent collectors, so someone out there has to know.

[DigginThePast]

Tigerbeetle- Can you share some of your coin restoration techniques? I'm new to detecting but not coin collecting and some of the things I read, well...

[jlb783]

That is cool, I bet that is worth a something. 8)

[hoover-jr]

I have to concure! It is a double strike on both sides for sure.
And you can bet someone will be asking for it.
The condition helps greatly too!
A rare find indeed!!

[BuckleBoy]

Tigerbeetle- Can you share some of your coin restoration techniques? I'm new to detecting but not coin collecting and some of the things I read, well...

I'm Not new to this hobby But I'd like to know about your techniques as well. And I hope you will post a photo of the other side of that coin.


Best Wishes,



Buckles

[Iron Patch]

So come one you Treasure Net geniuses, someone has to announce that that coin is a real rare one. I've seen posts by knowledgeable large Cent collectors, so someone out there has to know.

Double struck counterfeit Geo. III British Halfpenny. Probably in the range of $100 - $150 coin.

[BuckleBoy]

So come one you Treasure Net geniuses, someone has to announce that that coin is a real rare one. I've seen posts by knowledgeable large Cent collectors, so someone out there has to know.

Double struck counterfeit Geo. III British Halfpenny. Probably in the range of $100 - $150 coin.

So likely made Here--not sent over to us from Britain.

[Iron Patch]

So come one you Treasure Net geniuses, someone has to announce that that coin is a real rare one. I've seen posts by knowledgeable large Cent collectors, so someone out there has to know.

Double struck counterfeit Geo. III British Halfpenny. Probably in the range of $100 - $150 coin.

So likely made Here--not sent over to us from Britain.

If that were the case I'd add a zero to my figure and times by 2 or 3 or more.

[shadows]

YES! the soil was kind to the coin, very nice

[tigerbeetle]

Great insights, folks. Thanks much. Obviously some majorly savvy Th'ers in here.

I, too, pondered the counterfeit angle since this coin is very thin yet holds great detail, usually a dead giveaway that non-minters were trying their hand at striking coinage.

As for the cleaning angle. I fully agreed that coins must be restored -- but only as much as the coin's condition allows.

During my coin restoration work with museums, I let curators know early on when the point of restoration began to approach the point of cleaning. I suggested going any further was not wise. They decided -- and usually agreed.

I know I'm bickering with terms but I reserve "cleaning" for the point where you're actually impacting the base metal. Coin dealers agree, that point is where improvement takes a 180-degree turn and become damage.

When restoring copper coins, I go by a fairly sophomoric principal: If blackness is still coming onto the cotton on a Q-Tip, you're still removing dirt. As the darkness diminishes on consecutive passes with the Q-Tip (which should be changed every few passes in order to note the color change), you're getting dangerously close to base metal.

Note: I've cleaned hundreds of coppers and can assure there is no convincing way to redarken an overcleaned coin -- at least not to where an experienced coin collector wouldn't notice immediately.

A good point was made above on some coppers being so valuable that even "cleaned" they're worth -- dare I say it -- a pretty penny. Still, it would have been a prettier penny if the coin had been taken to the point just prior to base metal impact -- then given a series of bare cotton wheel buffs to essentially seal the surface.

Sidebar: The sruface of old copper, even those kept under lock and key since creation, deteriorate, microscopically. Even the best condition old coins have, essentially, a layer of what might best be described as separated or disenfranchised surface metal. I bring that up to warn against ever exposing a copper coin to either an electrolytic cleaning or even an seemingly innocent ultrasonic cleaning. I was witness to a gorgeous A-Unc large cent being pitted to death by an ultrasonic cleaning, albeit an industrial-grade machine.

I may create a separate topic on techniques to clean copper, though there are some dangers in the use of hot dips that I'm not sure I want to responsible for.

[BuckleBoy]

Just add a disclaimer at the end of your cleaning post. I look forward to seeing it. I have a rather comprehensive post in the "Cleaning and Preservation" section on the topic of cleaning buttons.


Regards,



Buckleboy

[Iron Patch]

To be honest I really question how bad that 1775 could have been because dug coppers don't come back from the dead to look like that. Are we talking about cleaning dirt or corrosion? Two very different things.