Old find with renewed interest

[Danimal]

Some of you may remember a find I made a few years ago of a bronze pendant that seemed to be of ancient origin (specifically Minoan).
I had posted the find here on TNet and a few other places looking for any information on the find. What I received in return was a flood of interest from various archeologists and others who spend their time studying ancient Greek, Crete and Minoan civilizations. Quite a few were interested in meeting me to take metal samples from the item for proper dating. I even received a fairly large cash offer for the item (which I refused mainly due to advice from a few here who thought it could be worth much more if ever authenticated).
Bottom line was that the interest in the item COMPLETELY dissappeared as I revealed more and more details as to WHERE the item was found (in NE Ohio) as the "experts" in this field (like many other "experts" in other fields of study) declared that the item MUST be either a forgery or a modern reproduction because it does not "fit" their paradigm of who was visiting N. America in it's past. Never mind that PLENTY of other "paradigm busters" exist in N. America (Roman coin caches found, Egyptian artifacts found, Viking artifacts found, etc) just remember that MOST experts won't put their reputation on the line by issuing heretical statements that counter accepted theory.

I recently though have been contacted by a man (Author Frank Joseph) who's specialty is EXACTLY the opposite the norm. Mr. Joseph has authored books that deal with archeological finds that DON'T fit the accepted theories on early N. American settlers and visitors. Mr. Joseph even has covered OTHER Minoan artifacts that have been uncovered in N. America!

(I can ramble on can't I??...don't you all MISS that lol)

Long story short, my pendant is being featured in the July issue of Ancient American; Archeology of the Americas before Columbus magazine! Mr. Joseph is convinced my find is authentic. Here is a link the Ancient Americas magazine's website:

http://www.ancientamerican.com/

Here are a couple of recent pics I took for him of the pendant:




Hopefully this renewed interest will spark more inquiries from the Mediteranian archeology community in general. If it IS authentic, this item is over 3000 yrs old.

Keep digging and don't ignore REAL deep targets (this was found at over a foot deep)

[Ziggy-Grimm]

VERY interesting!

[Danimal]

Yep those Minoans sure got around ...

Rock On Dan ~ Nick

The Minoans were a seafaring race that suddenly dissapeared. Artifacts have been found in Michigan with Minoan writing on them. So yes, it does look like they got around.

I was always surprised that the logic of the experts was basedly JUST on whether Minoans might have actually visited. This pendant appears to be just a shaped part of a larger pc.. I always thought that perhaps it was worn by an earlier visitor from Europe perhaps. The symbology on the pendant has to do with fertility and is supposed to bring luck with child bearing.

[shaun7]

nice!

[ivan salis]

if it doesn't fit the accepted "mold" of who was where or toe the old company line as far as who discovered what -- you got a very very "uphill" battle to "prove" anything --since the so called "experts" you need to Offically "verify" stuff will flee from you like cockroaches do when the lights come on .

[Danimal]

if it doesn't fit the accepted "mold" of who was where or toe the old company line as far as who discovered what -- you got a very very "uphill" battle to "prove" anything --since the so called "experts" you need to "verify" stuff will flee from you like cockroaches do when the lights come on .

Oh Ivan...the "fleeing" already happened several years ago! Mr. Joseph is one of a growing number of researchers who feel that perhaps there is more value in looking at data that doesn't fit the paradigm rather than the data that fits right in. His approach with me was positive and encouraging. When the article goes to print, I am quite sure that I will be hearing from others as well. At this point having material dating done is more attractive than it was when offered years ago. At THAT time, I was warned that many "oddball" artifacts have mysteriously disappeared when "loaned" to museums or researchers for dating and analysis. Difference this time is that there does seem to be supportive evidence now of other Minoan artifacts being uncovered in N. America.

Hey, at this point I have nothing to lose!

[RPG]

That's a great find. I hope it proves to be authentic.
Randy

[mountainplayer]

Dan,

Very cool find. I don't recall seeing it when you originally posted so I'm glad you took the time to provide this update. I hope that having the pendant published will bring someone out of the woodwork who can authenticate the piece. You must be chomping at the bit all over again. Heck, I have a dateless Buff that drives me crazy wondering!

Good seeing you post again.

MP

[DixieHunter145]

Interesting little peice of history you have there

[Danimal]

Dan,

Very cool find. I don't recall seeing it when you originally posted so I'm glad you took the time to provide this update. I hope that having the pendant published will bring someone out of the woodwork who can authenticate the piece. You must be chomping at the bit all over again. Heck, I have a dateless Buff that drives me crazy wondering!

Good seeing you post again.

MP

Thanks MP...I sure hope so! I had almost forgotten about the piece until this interest showed up.

Try "Nik a date" for your Buff...Google it...it's an acid etch that brings dates back from worn nickles.

[The Beep Goes On]

That is awesome Danimal. And you are so right about scientists...brainwashed in college and their minds are closed forever...or they must protect their own pet theories.

Beep

[Detectingfreak]

Hope its real! Congratulations on the incredible find!

[Colonial Copper Zeus]

Interesting find Dan. I have always been fascinated with the possibility of other ancient cultures possibly visiting North America. These theories should never be dismissed out of hand due to closed mindedness. recent evidence out of Egypt is pointing to many Egyptians being addicted to Cocaine. It was found in the analysis of the chemical composition of many dead Egyptians. Coca leaves can only be found in South America. There is no known connection of trade between the 2 areas so this Minoan connection is quite possible. Let us know of any news regarding this.
Chris

[Likely Guy]

Re: "closed mindedness"

If authentic this still would not prove that the Minoans visited North America. Perhaps it was picked up by someone on their holidays to Greece at the turn of the century and they later returned to Ohio where they lost it.

To be open minded, we have to accept all the possibilities, not just the most romantic.

[Colonial Copper Zeus]

Re: "closed mindedness"

If authentic this still would not prove that the Minoans visited North America. Perhaps it was picked up by someone on their holidays to Greece at the turn of the century and they later returned to Ohio where they lost it.

To be open minded, we have to accept all the possibilities, not just the most romantic.

I agree....I still subscribe to the mantra of...Extraordinary claims require Extraordinary proof but nothing gets resolved by closing the door to such claims. They must be ironed out one way or another.
Chris

[Danimal]

Well, considering the fact that the Minoan civilazation itself was completely unknown until ruins were discovered on Crete in the early 1900's, it seems unlikely that this was worn by someone in the turn of the Century.

[RGINN]

I don't have any problem with 'America B.C.'. But you can expect the 'experts' will dismiss that as plow marks.

[Likely Guy]

Well, considering the fact that the Minoan civilazation itself was completely unknown until ruins were discovered on Crete in the early 1900's, it seems unlikely that this was worn by someone in the turn of the Century.

Semantics not included, you do get what I mean?

I'm not here to pee on your parade, or your Corn Flakes.

I said "To be open minded, we have to accept all the possibilities, not just the most romantic."
Let me clarify: "...we have to consider all the possibilities" Not wipe them under the rug. Do you not consider the possibility?

Example: 'Crusader' goes to Alberta and loses his favourite Roman coin. Does that prove that Romans went to Alberta?, of course not.

[Danimal]

Well, considering the fact that the Minoan civilazation itself was completely unknown until ruins were discovered on Crete in the early 1900's, it seems unlikely that this was worn by someone in the turn of the Century.

Semantics not included, you do get what I mean?

I'm not here to pee on your parade, or your Corn Flakes.

I said "To be open minded, we have to accept all the possibilities, not just the most romantic."
Let me clarify: "...we have to consider all the possibilities" Not wipe them under the rug. Do you not consider the possibility?

Example: 'Crusader' goes to Alberta and loses his favourite Roman coin. Does that prove that Romans went to Alberta?, of course not.

Did you even READ my post? I clearly stated:
"I was always surprised that the logic of the experts was basedly JUST on whether Minoans might have actually visited. This pendant appears to be just a shaped part of a larger pc.. I always thought that perhaps it was worn by an earlier visitor from Europe perhaps. The symbology on the pendant has to do with fertility and is supposed to bring luck with child bearing. "

Let's say a French fur traper in the late 1600's was wearing it. He didn't necc. need to understand what it was or where it was from, etc to be wearing the piece. The fact that NO ONE in Europe even knew the Minoans existed or had any idea of what the Labrys symbolized or WHO the "Prince of Lillies" (the figure represented on the Obverse first found on frescos in the Minoan Palace at Knossis with the earliest excavations) seems to point that it probably wasn't worn at a later time.
Now the possibility exists that this is a period piece created AFTER the ruins at Knossis were found, and that would make the pendant no more than 100yrs old or so. The problem with this idea is that experts (not you or I) in Minoan culture and artifacts have clearly stated that they have seen no representative examples to indicate this is a more modern reproduction. Also surface analysis of the bronze two years ago seemed to show that it was MUCH older than 100yrs old. At that time I was asked to allow either material to be removed from the item for proper dating or to allow the pendant itself to be "borrowed". I decided against either at that time.

Look...I posted this because the item is being looked at again by experts that do ignore it because of where it was found. It WILL be featured in the magazine. What you think you might be doing may be interpreted (peeing or raining or whatever on corn flakes or parades) means little to me...trust me.

[allen]

that is an awesome piece of ancient history !!!!