The Insignia from Emperor Maximilian, an Heraldic Badge from 1477-1525

[woody50]

This post has been made to answer a request from Shaun7 for information about my new avatar (I change them every once in a while).

A few years ago I found this insignia in a building site in Hoorn, where I live. It was quite deep, between 2/3 meters and in very old black organic ground (see photo), along with many other finds, both metal and nonmetal. I will be adding more finds later when I get more time (always busy it seems). Here is the determination: (also in Dutch for my Dutch friends and colleagues)...

Links: http://www.kunera.nl/Default.aspx
http://www.medievalbadges.org/p1e.html


The Insignia from Emperor Maximilian
Type : Heraldic Badge (Insignia)
Dimensions 32x27mm
Material: Tin-lead
Date 1477-1525

Description
Tin-Lead Insignia with
Coat of arms (Emperor Maximilian) with crown
Double-headed eagle (Habsburg)
Burgundian tribal cross
Golden fleece Chain

A other found insignia (this one is in better condition) can be seen in the book "Heilig en Profaan 1" from H. Beuningen, on page 280. Book is in the Dutch Language...

Dutch:
Heraldische Insigne
Wapen van keizer Maximiliaan
afm 32x27mm
materiaal tin-lood
datering 1477-1525

details :
gekroond schild;
dubbel-koppige adelaar (Habsburg);
Bourgondische stammenkruis;
Keten gulden vlies

als in Heilig en Profaan 1 (Beuningen) pagina 280

Date Found:I think 1999
Location Found:Hoorn, The Netherlands
Value:unkown
Description:see above
Detector Used:Lobo
Comments:see above

[BuckleBoy]

Woody,


Thank you for posting such an interesting find! Was this a military insignia? I don't quite understand the term "heraldic badge." Does this mean that it has a family crest on it and was used as a badge of some un-specified function?

[shaun7]

thats a beautiful find woody!

the conditions looked very sticky

[woody50]

thats a beautiful find woody!

the conditions looked very sticky

Thank Shaun, and yes it was sticky... sticky sticky clay, and lots of it. This was almost the bottom of the canal...

[woody50]

Woody,
Thank you for posting such an interesting find! Was this a military insignia? I don't quite understand the term "heraldic badge." Does this mean that it has a family crest on it and was used as a badge of some un-specified function?

No problem BB, I hope that detectorists by seeing many various objects will learn about the past.
About your questions, I will get back to you tomorrow if I luck out, I'm going to bed now (01.10) and have to get a house ready for my mother-in-law to live in tomorrow and this week (painting, carpet, and everything...), so wish me luck (I'm not taking my detector there!)...

[BuckleBoy]

Woody,
Thank you for posting such an interesting find! Was this a military insignia? I don't quite understand the term "heraldic badge." Does this mean that it has a family crest on it and was used as a badge of some un-specified function?

No problem BB, I hope that detectorists by seeing many various objects will learn about the past.
About your questions, I will get back to you tomorrow if I luck out, I'm going to bed now (01.10) and have to get a house ready for my mother-in-law to live in tomorrow and this week (painting, carpet, and everything...), so wish me luck (I'm not taking my detector there!)...

LOL no problem. I look forward to learning more about the badge.


Regards,


BB

[shaun7]

thats a beautiful find woody!

the conditions looked very sticky

Thank Shaun, and yes it was sticky... sticky sticky clay, and lots of it. This was almost the bottom of the canal...

that must be hard work woody!

i've seen those canals and they seem to be full of bikes

unlike ours which are full of shopping trolleys

[woody50]

thats a beautiful find woody!
the conditions looked very sticky

Thank Shaun, and yes it was sticky... sticky sticky clay, and lots of it. This was almost the bottom of the canal...

that must be hard work woody!
i've seen those canals and they seem to be full of bikes
unlike ours which are full of shopping trolleys

Well it was not too much work Shaun, I did not have to dig the canal out to about three meters deep, that was done already!
About what is in the canals, yes there are many (stolen) bikes in the canals, but you didn't look carefully either, there are many shopping trolleys also!

[woody50]

Woody,
Thank you for posting such an interesting find! Was this a military insignia? I don't quite understand the term "heraldic badge." Does this mean that it has a family crest on it and was used as a badge of some un-specified function?

Well BB I found this. I guess you could also call some of them military insignias, but I
myself would think that the most would show that you were from a particular family.

In heraldry, a badge is an emblem or personal device used to indicate allegiance
to or property of an individual or family.

Physical badges were common in the Middle Ages particularly in England. They
would be made of base metal and worn on the clothing of the followers of the
person in question. This might be in battle or in other contexts where
allegiance was displayed. The badge would also be embroidered or appliqued on
standards, horse trappings, livery uniforms, and other belongings

In the fourteenth, fifteenth, and sixteenth centuries, well-known badges were
borne by the followers, retainers, dependants, and partisans of famous and
powerful personages and houses, precisely because they were known and
understood. (In contrast, the coat of arms was used exclusively by the
individual to whom it belonged.)

Badges are occasionally taken from a charge in the bearer's coat of arms, or
they have a more or less direct reference to those charges. More often, badges
commemorated some remarkable exploit, illustrated a family or feudal alliance,
or indicated some territorial rights or pretensions. Some badges are rebuses,
making a pun or play-on-words of the owner's name.

It was not uncommon for the same personage or family to use more than one badge;
and, on the other hand, two or more badges were often borne in combination, to
form a single compound device.

[shaun7]

thats a beautiful find woody!
the conditions looked very sticky

Thank Shaun, and yes it was sticky... sticky sticky clay, and lots of it. This was almost the bottom of the canal...

that must be hard work woody!
i've seen those canals and they seem to be full of bikes
unlike ours which are full of shopping trolleys

Well it was not too much work Shaun, I did not have to dig the canal out to about three meters deep, that was done already!
About what is in the canals, yes there are many (stolen) bikes in the canals, but you didn't look carefully either, there are many shopping trolleys also!

the people on them bikes are maniacs

i've nearly been run over a couple of times whilst in Amsterdam, but that could have been my fault i suppose

[woody50]

thats a beautiful find woody!
the conditions looked very sticky

Thank Shaun, and yes it was sticky... sticky sticky clay, and lots of it. This was almost the bottom of the canal...

that must be hard work woody!
i've seen those canals and they seem to be full of bikes
unlike ours which are full of shopping trolleys

Well it was not too much work Shaun, I did not have to dig the canal out to about three meters deep, that was done already!
About what is in the canals, yes there are many (stolen) bikes in the canals, but you didn't look carefully either, there are many shopping trolleys also!

the people on them bikes are maniacs
i've nearly been run over a couple of times whilst in Amsterdam, but that could have been my fault i suppose

Jeeze Shaun, then you should NOT stand on the street with your tongue hanging out looking at the girls in the windows. (Yes I know what you do here!)

[shaun7]

thats a beautiful find woody!
the conditions looked very sticky

Thank Shaun, and yes it was sticky... sticky sticky clay, and lots of it. This was almost the bottom of the canal...

that must be hard work woody!
i've seen those canals and they seem to be full of bikes
unlike ours which are full of shopping trolleys

Well it was not too much work Shaun, I did not have to dig the canal out to about three meters deep, that was done already!
About what is in the canals, yes there are many (stolen) bikes in the canals, but you didn't look carefully either, there are many shopping trolleys also!

the people on them bikes are maniacs
i've nearly been run over a couple of times whilst in Amsterdam, but that could have been my fault i suppose

Jeeze Shaun, then you should NOT stand on the street with your tongue hanging out looking at the girls in the windows. (Yes I know what you do here!)

i'm only human Earl!

it wasn't the girls! i just couldn't tell what was pavement and what was road

[woody50]

thats a beautiful find woody!
the conditions looked very sticky

Thank Shaun, and yes it was sticky... sticky sticky clay, and lots of it. This was almost the bottom of the canal...

that must be hard work woody!
i've seen those canals and they seem to be full of bikes
unlike ours which are full of shopping trolleys

Well it was not too much work Shaun, I did not have to dig the canal out to about three meters deep, that was done already!
About what is in the canals, yes there are many (stolen) bikes in the canals, but you didn't look carefully either, there are many shopping trolleys also!

the people on them bikes are maniacs
i've nearly been run over a couple of times whilst in Amsterdam, but that could have been my fault i suppose

Jeeze Shaun, then you should NOT stand on the street with your tongue hanging out looking at the girls in the windows. (Yes I know what you do here!)

i'm only human Earl!
it wasn't the girls! i just couldn't tell what was pavement and what was road

Hmmm, I didn't notice that, but OK. Yea I know about the pavement and road, but you have to look DOWN to see that Shaun...

[shaun7]

thats a beautiful find woody!
the conditions looked very sticky

Thank Shaun, and yes it was sticky... sticky sticky clay, and lots of it. This was almost the bottom of the canal...

that must be hard work woody!
i've seen those canals and they seem to be full of bikes
unlike ours which are full of shopping trolleys

Well it was not too much work Shaun, I did not have to dig the canal out to about three meters deep, that was done already!
About what is in the canals, yes there are many (stolen) bikes in the canals, but you didn't look carefully either, there are many shopping trolleys also!

the people on them bikes are maniacs
i've nearly been run over a couple of times whilst in Amsterdam, but that could have been my fault i suppose

Jeeze Shaun, then you should NOT stand on the street with your tongue hanging out looking at the girls in the windows. (Yes I know what you do here!)

i'm only human Earl!
it wasn't the girls! i just couldn't tell what was pavement and what was road

Hmmm, I didn't notice that, but OK. Yea I know about the pavement and road, but you have to look DOWN to see that Shaun...

ok Earl, you got me! but you can't blame me

[BuckleBoy]

Thank you for your reply, Woody. I have a good sense of this marvelous relic now. I would imagine that these insignia were an outgrowth of the feudal system?

A beautiful piece, with a very cool history. How did you narrow down the ruler it makes reference to?



Regards,



Buckleboy

[allen]

congrats on that awesome piece of history !!!

[woody50]

Thank you for your reply, Woody. I have a good sense of this marvelous relic now. I would imagine that these insignia were an outgrowth of the feudal system?
A beautiful piece, with a very cool history. How did you narrow down the ruler it makes reference to?
Regards,
Buckleboy

First, I don't know the answer to your question : I would imagine that these insignia were an outgrowth of the feudal system? Maybe someone can help? (Cru?)

Second, well I knew it was a sort of insignia, but not a Pilgrim insignia. The other day I finally found my two books from H.J.E. van Beuningen. They were moved to the garage during a big clean-up in my attic workshop (well it's not dark but a nice very light with many windows and airy attic), I missed my books very much but there were always too many things to do and I could not find them all during my searches. So I emptied the attic in the garage and finally found a box with these two books. Then just checking around in the books I came across it on page 280 and my quest for determination was finished!

The books are called Heilig en Profaan (Sacred and Profane) book 1 and book 2. They are just great books for Pilgrim and other insignias. A couple of my insignias are in the books also (not this one). But the down part is that they are published in Dutch, although some parts are in English and other languages. See http://www.clarebooks.co.uk/item11445.htm

I was glad to find it and know what it finally was. This is the page where it is shown (my find is much better than the one shown in the book)....

[woody50]

congrats on that awesome piece of history !!!

Thanks Allen. When you are searching in the mud and something like this turns up you really stand still for some time. Its about the feeling that you get when you find a gold coin. You know immediately that its very old and in very good condition. Something for your number 1 showcase!

[curbdiggercarl57]

That is beautiful, I'd avatar that myself, if I wasn't trying to annoy people right now. Beautiful.

[shaun7]

That is beautiful, I'd avatar that myself, if I wasn't trying to annoy people right now. Beautiful.