Bat Wing Buckle

[G.A.P.metal]

2 7/8" wide X 2 1/2 tall.
Found at an old cabin site in NY.
I dont know what kind of metal it is sounds like brass?? but its black with age, magnet will not stick to it.
posted it to see if anybody eles has found 1!!

[CRUSADER]

Plenty have been found on here, some 18th C & other mid-19th C.

Does it have an off-set bar?

[gwdigger]

I watched a buddy find one 5 feet from where I was but I've been a colonial hunter for over 20 years and have never found one yet. I LIKE!

[G.A.P.metal]

Plenty have been found on here, some 18th C & other mid-19th C.

Does it have an off-set bar?

hi CRUSADER ......no the bar is in the middle

[CRUSADER]

Plenty have been found on here, some 18th C & other mid-19th C.

Does it have an off-set bar?

hi CRUSADER ......no the bar is in the middle

off-set, as in set back from the frame, like this one:
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,333924.0.html
If not, its more likely 18th C

[Bramblefind]

Hi Crusader - can you tell me anything about these? There were found at the same site but a distance away from each other-

[G.A.P.metal]

Plenty have been found on here, some 18th C & other mid-19th C.

Does it have an off-set bar?

hi CRUSADER ......no the bar is in the middle

off-set, as in set back from the frame, like this one:
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,333924.0.html
If not, its more likely 18th C

hi CRUSADER no its not off-set thanks for the info

[CRUSADER]

Hi Crusader - can you tell me anything about these? There were found at the same site but a distance away from each other-

The thing that worries me about calling every batwing 18th C is not all of them are. Generally these Brass ones were mid-19th C horse harness types. (normally but not always with an off set bar to take the thick leather) Most 18th C buckles are not normally Brass...

I'm happier that the one below is 18th C:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,326245.0.html

[Bramblefind]

Thanks I'm pleased with them either way. Especially the complete one.

[BuckleBoy]

The thing that worries me about calling every batwing 18th C is not all of them are. Generally these Brass ones were mid-19th C horse harness types. (normally but not always with an off set bar to take the thick leather) Most 18th C buckles are not normally Brass...

I'm happier that the one below is 18th C:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,326245.0.html

These buckles seem to be found at early 19th c./late 18th c. sites here. I do not think these were mid 19th c. horse tack--for the simple reason that I haven't dug one yet--and I have primarily hunted mid 19th c. sites. Hundreds of mid-19th c. sites, in fact. Now, these could be more of a regional style (Northeastern U.S.)--but I would think not, since they have been found overseas as well.

[CRUSADER]

The thing that worries me about calling every batwing 18th C is not all of them are. Generally these Brass ones were mid-19th C horse harness types. (normally but not always with an off set bar to take the thick leather) Most 18th C buckles are not normally Brass...

I'm happier that the one below is 18th C:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,326245.0.html

These buckles seem to be found at early 19th c./late 18th c. sites here. I do not think these were mid 19th c. horse tack--for the simple reason that I haven't dug one yet--and I have primarily hunted mid 19th c. sites. Hundreds of mid-19th c. sites, in fact. Now, these could be more of a regional style (Northeastern U.S.)--but I would think not, since they have been found overseas as well.

Thats what the Books & the UKDFD say...

[BuckleBoy]

The thing that worries me about calling every batwing 18th C is not all of them are. Generally these Brass ones were mid-19th C horse harness types. (normally but not always with an off set bar to take the thick leather) Most 18th C buckles are not normally Brass...

I'm happier that the one below is 18th C:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,326245.0.html

These buckles seem to be found at early 19th c./late 18th c. sites here. I do not think these were mid 19th c. horse tack--for the simple reason that I haven't dug one yet--and I have primarily hunted mid 19th c. sites. Hundreds of mid-19th c. sites, in fact. Now, these could be more of a regional style (Northeastern U.S.)--but I would think not, since they have been found overseas as well.

Thats what the Books & the UKDFD say...

That's odd. I wonder why the heck we're not finding them in sites anywhere but the Northeastern U.S. in late 18th/early 19th century sites.

I have only seen one posted in the midwest, and it was dug by Merf in Illinois.

I need to pay more attention to how the crossbar is cast in them.



Offset bar; late 1700s/early 1800s site:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,310094.0.html

Offset bar; early 1800s site (no tombac buttons like the site above):

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,333924.0.html

Integral bar, Colonial site:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,326245.0.html

Offset bar; late 1700s/early 1800s site:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,318798.0.html

Offset bar, but no other finds from the site posted:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,258620.0.html

Offset bar; early/mid 1800s site:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,319944.0.html



Mid 1800s to early 1900s site in Illinois. Offset bar.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,163094.0.html

[CRUSADER]

The thing that worries me about calling every batwing 18th C is not all of them are. Generally these Brass ones were mid-19th C horse harness types. (normally but not always with an off set bar to take the thick leather) Most 18th C buckles are not normally Brass...

I'm happier that the one below is 18th C:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,326245.0.html

These buckles seem to be found at early 19th c./late 18th c. sites here. I do not think these were mid 19th c. horse tack--for the simple reason that I haven't dug one yet--and I have primarily hunted mid 19th c. sites. Hundreds of mid-19th c. sites, in fact. Now, these could be more of a regional style (Northeastern U.S.)--but I would think not, since they have been found overseas as well.

Thats what the Books & the UKDFD say...

That's odd. I wonder why the heck we're not finding them in sites anywhere but the Northeastern U.S. in late 18th/early 19th century sites.

I have only seen one posted in the midwest, and it was dug by Merf in Illinois.

I need to pay more attention to how the crossbar is cast in them.

I've never dug one & you know how many buckles I have

[Silver Searcher]

The style is a double looped Trapzodial Buckle, which we find dating from the post medieval period.....1600s, the US boys call them Batwing for obvious reasons, but the one posted does look a little later as Cru points out the one below is a little different in style, but still from the same theme


http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/ukdfddata/sho...=23428&cat=176

SS

[CRUSADER]

The thing that worries me about calling every batwing 18th C is not all of them are. Generally these Brass ones were mid-19th C horse harness types. (normally but not always with an off set bar to take the thick leather) Most 18th C buckles are not normally Brass...

I'm happier that the one below is 18th C:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,326245.0.html

These buckles seem to be found at early 19th c./late 18th c. sites here. I do not think these were mid 19th c. horse tack--for the simple reason that I haven't dug one yet--and I have primarily hunted mid 19th c. sites. Hundreds of mid-19th c. sites, in fact. Now, these could be more of a regional style (Northeastern U.S.)--but I would think not, since they have been found overseas as well.

Thats what the Books & the UKDFD say...

That's odd. I wonder why the heck we're not finding them in sites anywhere but the Northeastern U.S. in late 18th/early 19th century sites.

I have only seen one posted in the midwest, and it was dug by Merf in Illinois.

I need to pay more attention to how the crossbar is cast in them.



Offset bar; late 1700s/early 1800s site:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,310094.0.html

Offset bar; early 1800s site (no tombac buttons like the site above):

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,333924.0.html

Integral bar, Colonial site:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,326245.0.html

Offset bar; late 1700s/early 1800s site:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,318798.0.html

Offset bar, but no other finds from the site posted:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,258620.0.html

Offset bar; early/mid 1800s site:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,319944.0.html



Mid 1800s to early 1900s site in Illinois. Offset bar.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,163094.0.html

Studied all that evidence, which fits in quite well with an 1850 date given, as I see many 1820-40s buttons with 1827 coin (lost after 1827), so maybe you could build a case that many of these brass versions were 1820-40 timeframe. I would not think that they are used in the late 1700s. Remembering that some very similar shaped ones do fall into that bracket but I believe them to be made of other copper-alloys other than Brass.

[Iron Patch]

I watched a buddy find one 5 feet from where I was but I've been a colonial hunter for over 20 years and have never found one yet. I LIKE!

Not one here for us in well over 30 combined years detecting and the majority of our sites would be the perfect time frame. They don't regisister very high on my interest scale because I think they're just a 19th century common use buckle. But adding one to the display case wouldn't hurt either.

[Bramblefind]

I love my batwing buckle. I know you are envious.

Any opinions about these scraping lines on the back? I haven't seen all that many batwings but this one BB linked is similar in that regard-

[Iron Patch]

I love my batwing buckle. I know you are envious.

Any opinions about these scraping lines on the back? I haven't seen all that many batwings but this one BB linked is similar in that regard-

You're definitely in batwing buckle country there! Well closer to envious than jealous, but still a long way away.

[Bramblefind]

You're definitely in batwing buckle country there! Well closer to envious than jealous, but still a long way away.

Fortunately my buckle is not easily offended.

[Iron Patch]

You're definitely in batwing buckle country there! Well closer to envious than jealous, but still a long way away.

Fortunately my buckle is not easily offended.

You sure? Your third looks broken up about it.