Cartwheel Penny

[AussieMike]

Hi from Australia all, I found this about 4 weeks ago and has sat on my kitchen bench since very lucky to avoid me discarding into the bin many times. Luckily a fellow member from an oz forum posted a pic of one he found and I instantly recognised as what I had. It is one very worn ugly piece of copper but never the less it is a cartwheel penny sweeet and my best find to date.You can just make out the (9) from 1797 at bottom right. Love this site and reading about all the intresting things you guys and gals find over there.

British penny, 1797 (Cartwheel penny)
This is an example of the 1797 British penny, which became the first official Australian coin after a shipment arrived in Sydney in 1800. The coins in this shipment were given a local value of two pence by a proclamation of the Governor. The coins remained in use for some 60 years and found their way to Melbourne in the 1830s and 1840s. Examples found in archaeological excavations can be seen in the Melbourne exhibition. The coins were made in Birmingham by Matthew Boulton on presses driven by James Watt's new steam engine. It was the first use of the new engine.

Proclamation 1797 Cartwheel Penny
In my previous entry about Australian proclamation coins I mentioned the 1797 cartwheel penny of Great Britain which was valued at 2d in the proclamation. These large (36mm diameter) copper coins were struck in copper in the years 1797 to 1799. Their large distinctive raised rims were reminiscent of cartwheels and they were nicknamed accordingly. The cartwheel penny and twopence were the first coins minted anywhere in the world using steam powered coin presses, and this new technology allowed the mass production of a well struck yet very large coin. The coins themselves weighed exactly 1 ounce (avoirdupois) or 28.35g. This was intentional and allowed the coins (and their 2 penny brethren which weighed 2oz) to be used as weights for scales.
The coins were minted at the Soho mint (the mint mark is visible on the reverse) in Birmingham. The mint itself was setup by Matthew Boulton, the well known 18th factory owner and manufacturer. His mint used steam powered coin presses, with the steam engines designed and manufactured with his business partner and steam engine pioneer James Watt.
The obverse of the coin depicts a laureate bust of King George III facing right. The unusual incuse legend in the cartwheel rim reads Georgius III D.G. REX. This translates to George III, by the grace of God, King.
The reverse of the coin depicts robed and seated Britannia facing left holding a trident. She is depicted on a back drop of the ocean with a ship at the bottom left, this symbolized Britains naval might and reliance on sea trade at the time of the striking of the coins. The mint mark SOHO can be seen in small incuse letters just below the figure of Britannia in the exergue. The incuse legend in the rims reads Britannia 1797.
A key problem with purchasing these coins is the sheer size and weight of the coin. This can lead to significant rim bruising that (if possible) should be avoided when purchasing a coin. That being said attractive mid grade coins are readily available at reasonable cost. Higher grade coins (extremely fine and above) are obtainable if you are willing to wait for a coin to appear. Interestingly proof specimens of the cartwheel penny are available in straight copper, gilded, and bronzed copper. These are stunningly attractive coins but priced accordingly!

[Bramblefind]

Great find!! Thanks for the info. - it is a fun coin for sure

Welcome to the board

[Iron Patch]

As long as your coin is the correct size because there is also this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ISLE-MAN-GEORGE-...-/230537629165

[tinpan]

As long as your coin is the correct size because there is also this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ISLE-MAN-GEORGE-...-/230537629165

William Bligh was the governor of the Colony of New South Wales twice , never the governor of the Isle of man.




tinpan

[Iron Patch]

As long as your coin is the correct size because there is also this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ISLE-MAN-GEORGE-...-/230537629165

William Bligh was the governor of the Colony of New South Wales twice , never the governor of the Isle of man.




tinpan

Yes and I bet he was the one who dropped it. Apparently he didn't clean up the rum trade completely because it appears at least one person continues to indulge.

[tinpan]

As long as your coin is the correct size because there is also this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ISLE-MAN-GEORGE-...-/230537629165

William Bligh was the governor of the Colony of New South Wales twice , never the governor of the Isle of man.




tinpan

Yes and I bet he was the one who dropped it. Apparently he didn't clean up the rum trade completely because it appears at least one person continues to indulge.

assume as you please, you seem to be an expert at that

tinpan

[Iron Patch]

As long as your coin is the correct size because there is also this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ISLE-MAN-GEORGE-...-/230537629165

William Bligh was the governor of the Colony of New South Wales twice , never the governor of the Isle of man.




tinpan

Yes and I bet he was the one who dropped it. Apparently he didn't clean up the rum trade completely because it appears at least one person continues to indulge.

assume as you please, you seem to be an expert at that

tinpan

I think it is you who assumes, discounting the possibilty of an Isle of Man coin being found in Australia.

[tinpan]

As long as your coin is the correct size because there is also this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ISLE-MAN-GEORGE-...-/230537629165

William Bligh was the governor of the Colony of New South Wales twice , never the governor of the Isle of man.




tinpan

Yes and I bet he was the one who dropped it. Apparently he didn't clean up the rum trade completely because it appears at least one person continues to indulge.

assume as you please, you seem to be an expert at that

tinpan

I think it is you who assumes, discounting the possibilty of an Isle of Man coin being found in Australia.

Both the correct history and exact location of find is everything.Mike said this in the post first, you where the one that begged to differ .when did i say willaim bligh dropped it or that isle of man coins are not found in Australia

tinpan Fact not fiction

[Iron Patch]

As long as your coin is the correct size because there is also this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ISLE-MAN-GEORGE-...-/230537629165

William Bligh was the governor of the Colony of New South Wales twice , never the governor of the Isle of man.




tinpan

Yes and I bet he was the one who dropped it. Apparently he didn't clean up the rum trade completely because it appears at least one person continues to indulge.

assume as you please, you seem to be an expert at that

tinpan

I think it is you who assumes, discounting the possibility of an Isle of Man coin being found in Australia.

Both the correct history and exact location of find is everything.Mike said this in the post first, you where the one that begged to differ .when did i say willaim bligh dropped it or that isle of man coins are not found in Australia

tinpan Fact not fiction

I begged to differ? Now that is pure fiction. He obviously made the initial ID because of the rim, and if he wasn't familiar with a cartwheel penny it's probably safe to assume he is not with an Isle of Man Halfpenny. I was simply throwing out the suggestion, and by you quoting me there was obviously some intent. But you can continue to live in your world, just you and the Captain (Morgan), and reply to me anytime you want. I do enjoy kicking a kangaroo once in a while. You know what they say about payback, Hoppy.

[tinpan]

As long as your coin is the correct size because there is also this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ISLE-MAN-GEORGE-...-/230537629165

William Bligh was the governor of the Colony of New South Wales twice , never the governor of the Isle of man.




tinpan

Yes and I bet he was the one who dropped it. Apparently he didn't clean up the rum trade completely because it appears at least one person continues to indulge.

assume as you please, you seem to be an expert at that

tinpan

I think it is you who assumes, discounting the possibility of an Isle of Man coin being found in Australia.

Both the correct history and exact location of find is everything.Mike said this in the post first, you where the one that begged to differ .when did i say willaim bligh dropped it or that isle of man coins are not found in Australia

tinpan Fact not fiction

I begged to differ? Now that is pure fiction. He obviously made the initial ID because of the rim, and if he wasn't familiar with a cartwheel penny it's probably safe to assume he is not with an Isle of Man Halfpenny. I was simply throwing out the suggestion, and by you quoting me there was obviously some intent. But you can continue to live in your world, just you and the Captain (Morgan), and reply to me anytime you want. I do enjoy kicking a kangaroo once in a while. You know what they say about payback, Hoppy.

In my world i can hunt all year round ,can you You don,t hunt much at all so that makes you computer chair expert

tinpan

[Iron Patch]

As long as your coin is the correct size because there is also this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ISLE-MAN-GEORGE-...-/230537629165

William Bligh was the governor of the Colony of New South Wales twice , never the governor of the Isle of man.




tinpan

Yes and I bet he was the one who dropped it. Apparently he didn't clean up the rum trade completely because it appears at least one person continues to indulge.

assume as you please, you seem to be an expert at that

tinpan

I think it is you who assumes, discounting the possibility of an Isle of Man coin being found in Australia.

Both the correct history and exact location of find is everything.Mike said this in the post first, you where the one that begged to differ .when did i say willaim bligh dropped it or that isle of man coins are not found in Australia

tinpan Fact not fiction

I begged to differ? Now that is pure fiction. He obviously made the initial ID because of the rim, and if he wasn't familiar with a cartwheel penny it's probably safe to assume he is not with an Isle of Man Halfpenny. I was simply throwing out the suggestion, and by you quoting me there was obviously some intent. But you can continue to live in your world, just you and the Captain (Morgan), and reply to me anytime you want. I do enjoy kicking a kangaroo once in a while. You know what they say about payback, Hoppy.

In my world i can hunt all year round ,can you You don,t hunt much at all so that makes you computer chair expert

tinpan

I guess you missed my last couple of posts.... but thats's ok. I'm sure we have different interest anyway, me Colonial, and you Australia stuff. Do you find many large knives or is that just a movie thing?

[Silver Searcher]

The Good Old Cartwheel, always nice to see them come out the ground Dug quite a few here, but none in that condition. 45 million were made in two years ...shaun7 still looking for one

SS

[shaun7]

The Good Old Cartwheel, always nice to see them come out the ground Dug quite a few here, but none in that condition. 45 million were made in two years ...shaun7 still looking for one

SS

Thanks for that MATE

[SC Keith]

Nice coin!! I have never found a Cartwheel!

[AussieMike]

Thanks for the comments people. Iron patch pretty sure 36mm cartwheel but pretty bad condition intresting link looks like a cartwheel rim any idea of the size? Wow silver searcher I didnt know that many were minted I am thinking when you say in that condition(bad)

[Silver Searcher]

Thanks for the comments people. Iron patch pretty sure 36mm cartwheel but pretty bad condition intresting link looks like a cartwheel rim any idea of the size? Wow silver searcher I didnt know that many were minted I am thinking when you say in that condition(bad)

Ooops sorry I commented about the picture you posted from the book not the one you found yes the one you found is very similar to the condition found here

SS

[Iron Patch]

Thanks for the comments people. Iron patch pretty sure 36mm cartwheel but pretty bad condition intresting link looks like a cartwheel rim any idea of the size? Wow silver searcher I didnt know that many were minted I am thinking when you say in that condition(bad)

They are smaller and 36mm would make it a Cartwheel (The One Penny)

[{Sentinel}]

As long as your coin is the correct size because there is also this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ISLE-MAN-GEORGE-...-/230537629165

William Bligh was the governor of the Colony of New South Wales twice , never the governor of the Isle of man.




tinpan

Yes and I bet he was the one who dropped it. Apparently he didn't clean up the rum trade completely because it appears at least one person continues to indulge.

assume as you please, you seem to be an expert at that

tinpan

Congrats on the Cartwheel Penny

[Iron Patch]

for a correct ID on the Cartwheel and the willingness to make sure it's correct. Unlike people who are confused calling a common token a counterfeit gold coin, or a dump issue Halfpenny a Farthing, then have the audacity to suggest their knowledge is superior and shun the correct answers. Anyway, I'm glad that's not you!

[{Sentinel}]

up for a correct ID on the Cartwheel and the willingness to make sure it's correct. Unlike people who are confused calling a common token a counterfeit gold coin, or a dump issue Halfpenny a Farthing, then have the audacity to suggest their knowledge is superior and shun the correct answers. Anyway, I'm glad that's not you!

In fact I talked to the author of "A Thousand Guineas" and he said it is likely that what I found was indeed a counterfeit and NOT a token being that most the tokens were BRASS or copper ALLOY and not copper as the one I found.....In addition, yes, I revised that the Halfpenny was a dump issue. When Jeff looked it up, he told me that it was a Farthing so that's what I posted it as....But upon further examination we realized that the Dump issue is small in Millimeter size than other halfpennies. Although I've dug alot of great colonial relics over the years, I've admitted that colonial coppers (although I know my fair share about them), aren't my area of expertise...more a Civil War historian.....and don't try to act like an expert on everything like some others

I was simply telling this guy congrats on the Penny, didn't say a word to or about you IP