Extremely RARE Indian Peace Medal on eBay - My incredible story!

[Bramblefind]

I am posting this in Today's Finds even though I did not dig this since it is a find of a lifetime - and timely.

I have been working on this project for a few months now. But just today I found out that this medal is not only real, rare and valuable but also SOLD to a very prominent collector for a significant amount of money... so I thought I would post the story here.

I bought this George II silver medal on eBay for less than $100.00. I was the only bidder!

Before I placed my bid I did some preliminary research to try to figure out what it might have been issued for. The only reference that I could find that matched were some descriptions of medals brought over to America in 1753 by the then new governor of New York in order to be given as gifts to the Iroquois Indian chiefs. The eBay medal was advertised as silver but no mention to North American Indians was made in the description - I know the seller had no idea what it was either.

When it finally came to me in the mail I KNEW instantly it had to be something very special. It was bigger than the listing indicated but it was exactly the size I was hoping it would be. I gambled that the seller made a typo when listing it and listed the size a slightly smaller than it actually was - and I was right!

I then - with the help of a few wonderful Tnet members - THANK YOU!! - went about trying to figure out what this medal really was and what it might be worth. I hit so many roadblocks. I contacted a very well known collector of George III Indian Peace Medals and was given a one line response to my lengthy email:

The medal is almost certainly a fake. You can see what a real one looks like on the website of the ANS

when I checked the ANS website no pictures of this medal were there.

I approached two big numismatic auction houses. These were their responses:

I have contacted everyone in the company and we are really not sure what it is or what it could be worth. A few years ago we had a Medals and token expert and could have answer. Best of luck.

This medal appears in Medallic Illustrations of the History of Great Britain and Ireland, British Museum 1904, 1911, 1979, on Plate CLI number 1.. The descrition given there is “GEORGE II. Badge, 1731. Silver. This piece is cast and chased and is of rough workmanship. It has had a loop for suspension which shows that it was probably the badge of some Society; or perhaps intended for distribution amongst the chiefs of the American Indians…” At one time an effort was made to link and king and Arms medals to the Indians. The definitive Indian Peace Medal collection formed by John J. Ford Jr. did not include this type in and condition of metal. The value of the medal in the email might not exceed $200.

I just refused to believe it! I started hitting the google searches and ordering books and I started to find references:

And then my Tnet friends started to make contact with people who actually knew what this medal was and knew it was something fantastic. Things really came together when I contacted the American Numismatic Society and found out they have an example of this medal in their collection and here are some things I learned about it from them-

You are very fortunate to have acquired this item. If it is indeed genuine, your medal is a rare and important historical artifact....

...the ANS specimen is not on display, and is in fact kept off premises in a bank lock box, at an undisclosed location, for security purposes...

I ended up sending the medal to NYC to be authenticated by a well known authority on Colonial medals and coins. He confirmed it was a genuine period silver medal but he thought it was a "general purpose" medal and "Indian related" but not an Indian Peace Medal. I understand now he might be changing his opinion on this but it just goes to show how rare this medal is! I feel so fortunate to have had it in my possession and to have DONE THE RESEARCH to bring this medal to the attention of the people who counted.

As I said at the beginning - a VERY prominent collector made me a fantastic offer of many thousands and purchased this medal. It is possible that "my" medal will be included in upcoming research articles about this class of medals and their use as gifts by the British to the important North American Indian chiefs..

It was only last year I found my first copper detecting. I had never seen one before that. I have only started dabbling on eBay in the last 6 months or so buying an occasional George II or George III halfpenny just so I could see one in person since I hadn't had the fortune to dig one yet. I NEVER would have found this medal or been able to find a buyer for it if not for this forum and the wonderful members who helped me!

 

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[Iron Patch]

Just curious here...but what part of this "peace" medal indicates peace? I would think there would be clasped hands (handshake) or other pictorial references indicating peace.

Wouldn't something like this be useless to a native American back in the 1700s?

A Purple Heart or the Medal of Honor doesn't have a soldier on it. No different. It was about making peace and the medal was nothing more than a token of appreciation, recognition or acceptance.

A Purple Heart or the Medal of Honor would also have some accompanying documentation to the recipient. The Purple Heart has the bust of General George Washington (a soldier...just a FYI).

I'm just a curious observer...that's all.

Oh, so the Indians should have been given documentation. And... "The Purple Heart is a United States military decoration awarded in the name of the President" I would say there's a President on it, but regardless you didn't seem to get my point. I guess I should have went with my first reply... The Indians were just like crows, the bigger and shinier, the better.

 

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[IronSpike]

Way to go Bramblefind

 

[CRUSADER]

I'm not disagreeing with the use & the connection which I'm sure would be enough for a collector to pay big bucks.

I just would feel happier with a reliable source for them being made solely for that purpose. Maybe the collector has this info, I would love to see it?

I really hope he does because I would love to see it too! However, in my communications with the ANS what was stressed the most was how very unknown this medal's origins are. What it has going for it -

Rarity- from what I know there is one in the British Museum, one at the ANS, my example and possible 3 others in private hands. Making possibly 6 known at this time.

The N.A. Indian Connections - the ANS example was supposedly found "on an Indian trail" in Labrador, Canada over 100 years ago. There are references in literature to an example held by a family near Syracuse, NY in the 19th C that had family legend of being formerly owned by an Indian Chief.

There are references in the Quaker meeting records in PA of them distributing medals exactly matching this description in the years prior to them making their own medal - the 1757 George II Quaker Medal.

There is the reference to Gov. Danvers Osborne bringing 30 of these medals to New York in 1753 to be given as gifts to the Iroquois Indian Chiefs.

So there are a few examples known to me of how this medal likely did serve as an "Indian Peace Medal". I have never been able to find this medal listed in any other connotation but that. The only reference -when the medal is referenced - that does not classify this medal as an Indian Peace Medal absolutely is the Hawkins book. And in that book he is not sure how to classify it - it could be a "badge of some society" or an Indian medal. Interestingly - Mr. Hawkins was a curator at the British Museum and it is a medal from his collection that is the one of this type of medal held by them.

I also contacted British sources to try to get information on this medal. I wrote the British Museum and a prominent authority on medals and neither could tell me anything about it or what it might have been used for.

Thanks for a well considered response, I guess the British Museums reply highlights what I'm struggling with.

I hope you don't think I'm trying to belittle your find because at the end of the journey you made a killing & proved why you need to 'know' what your selling before you sell & 'who' to sell it to. So massive credit to you

You know me by now, I never take anyone's say so, without asking the questions which bother me. After all this is how we all learn on here & you & others have increased my knowledge in this area I had never heard of.

I hope others look upon this as a lesson for good research.

Sorry, If I came across as confrontational, its never my intention

 

[Bramblefind]

Thanks for a well considered response, I guess the British Museums reply highlights what I'm struggling with.

I hope you don't think I'm trying to belittle your find because at the end of the journey you made a killing & proved why you need to 'know' what your selling before you sell & 'who' to sell it to. So massive credit to you

You know me by now, I never take anyone's say so, without asking the questions which bother me. After all this is how we all learn on here & you & others have increased my knowledge in this area I had never heard of.

I hope others look upon this as a lesson for good research.

Sorry, If I came across as confrontational, its never my intention

Thank you and it is no problem at all! I didn't feel confronted - it gave me a chance to talk even more about the medal which I seem to never get tired of doing.

This medal bought me a brand new detector and the snow seems to finally be melting away. It would take a lot to upset me right now

 

[Iron Patch]

Thanks for a well considered response, I guess the British Museums reply highlights what I'm struggling with.

I hope you don't think I'm trying to belittle your find because at the end of the journey you made a killing & proved why you need to 'know' what your selling before you sell & 'who' to sell it to. So massive credit to you

You know me by now, I never take anyone's say so, without asking the questions which bother me. After all this is how we all learn on here & you & others have increased my knowledge in this area I had never heard of.

I hope others look upon this as a lesson for good research.

Sorry, If I came across as confrontational, its never my intention

Thank you and it is no problem at all! I didn't feel confronted - it gave me a chance to talk even more about the medal which I seem to never get tired of doing.

This medal bought me a brand new detector and the snow seems to finally be melting away. It would take a lot to upset me right now

Well that new detector is almost certainly a fake.

 

[thrillathahunt]

Congrats Bramblefind!!!!!

 

[GopherDaGold]

Nice purchase, heckuva story and GREAT profit! The purists be damned, I'd sell it too

 

[TheRandyMan]

Huge congrats to you ... all this means is that you will have more competition scouring Feebay now for these little tidbits...Although you probably should have just kept it as it soon will be worth more in melt value that numismatic value...lol...

 

[gemee]

Bramblefind, just wondering,...did you ask the seller how he came about this piece? It can sometimes be interesting to here what they say.
I bought a very large golden color w/stones pendant on eBay about 6 years ago for 90.00. I was the only bidder. To make a very long story short, after much prodding from people that know jewelry, I sent it Registered mail, and had it appraised by a jeweler from Antiques Roadshow, who does historical jewelry appraising. He dated it 1679-1710....23+ karat gold.Spanish in origin....Insurance replacement value $18,600.
I sent a simple email to the seller, asking her what she knew about this piece, and she wrote back that it had been "found in her aunt's attic, that died in 1967". She knew nothing more about the piece.
You just never know what will turn up on eBay.

 

[Bramblefind]

Thanks everyone! I thought about the possibility that I might have created eBay competition for myself by posting this but I hope I'm soon going to be too busy outside detecting to care

Gemee - amazing story! wtg! I did ask the seller and he didn't have any additional info. He couldn't remember where he got it but I don't think he had it very long.

 

[saltednuts]

JUST A NOTE MAYBE JUST MY 2 CENTS WORTH PROBABLY NOT EVEN WORTH THAT LOL. ANYWAY LOOKING AT THIS FANTASTIC FIND REGARDLESS OF WHERE IT CAME FROM YOU NOTICE A COUPLE THINGS AFTER HAVING COLLECTED COINS AND METALS FOR 40 YEARS AND METAL DETECTING FOR A LITTLE LONGER YOU NOTICE CERTAIN THINGS LIKE THIS METAL IS NOT HOLED LIKE ALL THE ONES IN THE BOOK, HAD IT BEEN GIVEN TO AN INDIAN CHIEF HE WOULD HAVE WORN IT PROUDLY, SECONDLY IT IS CAST ,WHICH LEADS ME TO BELIEVE IT IS AN EARLY PATTERN PIECE. WHICH NO DOUBT IS WHY SAID COLLECTOR PAID THRU THE NOSE FOR IT. WITH THAT SAID HE KNEW EXACTLY WHAT HE WAS BUYING HE JUST DIDNT TELL U THAT, WHEN HE GETS IT AUTHENTICATED WHICH HE WILL (THEY HAVE A WAY OF DOING THINGS THE REST OF US CANT IF U NO WHAT I MEAN) HE WILL ASK AN EXTREMELY HIGH PRICE AS IT BEING THE ONLY ONE IN EXISTENCE WITHOUT THE HOLE. A MUSEUM WILL PROBABLY END UP WITH THIS AS LONG AS THEY HAVE THE FUNDS. CONGRATS ON YOUR FIND GREAT NO MATTER WHERE ITS FROM. NEVER SELL ANYTHING WITH OUT FINDING OUT SOMETHING ABOUT IT KNOWLEDGE IS A WONDERFUL TOOL WHEN USED PROPERLY, IT CAN SLSO GET U MULTIPLE TIMES UR MONEY AS IT DID FOR U.

 

[Iron Patch]

JUST A NOTE MAYBE JUST MY 2 CENTS WORTH PROBABLY NOT EVEN WORTH THAT LOL. ANYWAY LOOKING AT THIS FANTASTIC FIND REGARDLESS OF WHERE IT CAME FROM YOU NOTICE A COUPLE THINGS AFTER HAVING COLLECTED COINS AND METALS FOR 40 YEARS AND METAL DETECTING FOR A LITTLE LONGER YOU NOTICE CERTAIN THINGS LIKE THIS METAL IS NOT HOLED LIKE ALL THE ONES IN THE BOOK, HAD IT BEEN GIVEN TO AN INDIAN CHIEF HE WOULD HAVE WORN IT PROUDLY, SECONDLY IT IS CAST ,WHICH LEADS ME TO BELIEVE IT IS AN EARLY PATTERN PIECE. WHICH NO DOUBT IS WHY SAID COLLECTOR PAID THRU THE NOSE FOR IT. WITH THAT SAID HE KNEW EXACTLY WHAT HE WAS BUYING HE JUST DIDNT TELL U THAT, WHEN HE GETS IT AUTHENTICATED WHICH HE WILL (THEY HAVE A WAY OF DOING THINGS THE REST OF US CANT IF U NO WHAT I MEAN) HE WILL ASK AN EXTREMELY HIGH PRICE AS IT BEING THE ONLY ONE IN EXISTENCE WITHOUT THE HOLE. A MUSEUM WILL PROBABLY END UP WITH THIS AS LONG AS THEY HAVE THE FUNDS. CONGRATS ON YOUR FIND GREAT NO MATTER WHERE ITS FROM. NEVER SELL ANYTHING WITH OUT FINDING OUT SOMETHING ABOUT IT KNOWLEDGE IS A WONDERFUL TOOL WHEN USED PROPERLY, IT CAN SLSO GET U MULTIPLE TIMES UR MONEY AS IT DID FOR U.

If you look close a hole was filled in and yes it's cast, and suppose to be that way.

The person who bought it probably ranks higher than anywhere that does authentications so his opinion is what counts, and is just a matter of whether other collectors agree.

 

[liftloop]

no wonder why you wake up with a red face.

 

[ouachitacaveman]

Cool story and research !!
I think the Indians could relate to the
dude on the medal with long hair, since
they likely had long hair too, LOL !

 

[Iron Patch]

sorry it fake i know the seller hate to be the bring of bad news that why he won the bidding

You do? And who is he? Dingdong did you take your meds today?

 

[romeo-1]

sorry it fake i know the seller hate to be the bring of bad news that why he won the bidding

If there was ever a post that required a "facepalm, this is it!

 

[allen]

that is great !!!!

 

[nuggy]

Knowledge is what pays off when it comes to buying and selling, you spotted the bargain - you risked the dollars you deserve the payout.

I know little about coins etc but use knowledge I do have, to buy things on ebay and other places to sell on - I buy the odd white elephant but usually I do fairly well. Incorrect descriptions (like the one you spotted), listings in wrong columns and bad spelling - typos are my best opportunities. Liquidators and others disposing of things just want it sold and are often sources of good buys.

No doubt you are keeping your eyes out for the next such item, hope you can manage many more such profitable deals. Congratulations Nuggy

 

[birdman]

That is just too cool. Glad you scored such a valuable piece of history!

 

[hamiddetecting]

Very nice coin