Extremely RARE Indian Peace Medal on eBay - My incredible story!

[Bramblefind]

I am posting this in Today's Finds even though I did not dig this since it is a find of a lifetime - and timely.

I have been working on this project for a few months now. But just today I found out that this medal is not only real, rare and valuable but also SOLD to a very prominent collector for a significant amount of money... so I thought I would post the story here.

I bought this George II silver medal on eBay for less than $100.00. I was the only bidder!

Before I placed my bid I did some preliminary research to try to figure out what it might have been issued for. The only reference that I could find that matched were some descriptions of medals brought over to America in 1753 by the then new governor of New York in order to be given as gifts to the Iroquois Indian chiefs. The eBay medal was advertised as silver but no mention to North American Indians was made in the description - I know the seller had no idea what it was either.

When it finally came to me in the mail I KNEW instantly it had to be something very special. It was bigger than the listing indicated but it was exactly the size I was hoping it would be. I gambled that the seller made a typo when listing it and listed the size a slightly smaller than it actually was - and I was right!

I then - with the help of a few wonderful Tnet members - THANK YOU!! - went about trying to figure out what this medal really was and what it might be worth. I hit so many roadblocks. I contacted a very well known collector of George III Indian Peace Medals and was given a one line response to my lengthy email:

The medal is almost certainly a fake. You can see what a real one looks like on the website of the ANS

when I checked the ANS website no pictures of this medal were there.

I approached two big numismatic auction houses. These were their responses:

I have contacted everyone in the company and we are really not sure what it is or what it could be worth. A few years ago we had a Medals and token expert and could have answer. Best of luck.

This medal appears in Medallic Illustrations of the History of Great Britain and Ireland, British Museum 1904, 1911, 1979, on Plate CLI number 1.. The descrition given there is “GEORGE II. Badge, 1731. Silver. This piece is cast and chased and is of rough workmanship. It has had a loop for suspension which shows that it was probably the badge of some Society; or perhaps intended for distribution amongst the chiefs of the American Indians…” At one time an effort was made to link and king and Arms medals to the Indians. The definitive Indian Peace Medal collection formed by John J. Ford Jr. did not include this type in and condition of metal. The value of the medal in the email might not exceed $200.

I just refused to believe it! I started hitting the google searches and ordering books and I started to find references:

And then my Tnet friends started to make contact with people who actually knew what this medal was and knew it was something fantastic. Things really came together when I contacted the American Numismatic Society and found out they have an example of this medal in their collection and here are some things I learned about it from them-

You are very fortunate to have acquired this item. If it is indeed genuine, your medal is a rare and important historical artifact....

...the ANS specimen is not on display, and is in fact kept off premises in a bank lock box, at an undisclosed location, for security purposes...

I ended up sending the medal to NYC to be authenticated by a well known authority on Colonial medals and coins. He confirmed it was a genuine period silver medal but he thought it was a "general purpose" medal and "Indian related" but not an Indian Peace Medal. I understand now he might be changing his opinion on this but it just goes to show how rare this medal is! I feel so fortunate to have had it in my possession and to have DONE THE RESEARCH to bring this medal to the attention of the people who counted.

As I said at the beginning - a VERY prominent collector made me a fantastic offer of many thousands and purchased this medal. It is possible that "my" medal will be included in upcoming research articles about this class of medals and their use as gifts by the British to the important North American Indian chiefs..

It was only last year I found my first copper detecting. I had never seen one before that. I have only started dabbling on eBay in the last 6 months or so buying an occasional George II or George III halfpenny just so I could see one in person since I hadn't had the fortune to dig one yet. I NEVER would have found this medal or been able to find a buyer for it if not for this forum and the wonderful members who helped me!

 

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[kuger]

Re: Extremely RARE Indian Peace Medal on eBay - incredible story

Research and a little luck!!!Glad to see an artifact saved!!!

 

[Broken knee]

Re: Extremely RARE Indian Peace Medal on eBay - incredible story

Nice, Good for you research pays!
Broken Knee

 

[diggummup]

Re: Extremely RARE Indian Peace Medal on eBay - incredible story

Good story Bramble and a great find regardless of where you got it!

 

[mainer]

Re: Extremely RARE Indian Peace Medal on eBay - incredible story

Wow what a story.

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Extremely RARE Indian Peace Medal on eBay - incredible story

Well many thousands is better than a kick in the $%#!# Now to find where the rest are hiding.


You'll sleep good tonight!

 

[Bramblefind]

Thanks everybody!

I am pretty excited about this because it did all just come together today.

I apologize for my mistake of posting it in Today's Finds.

 

[Don in SJ]

Perhaps posting this on Best Finds might have the longest viewable lasting effect, afterall, it is a find and it surely is your best. Best Finds posts don't get buried into oblivion quickly like they do on this section. I don't think it would get moved from that section.

With that said, what a great adventure you had and kudos to your great researching and persistance not to feel put down by the top dog collectors/experts not believing it was what it is.... You got your just reward for your diligent research and now keep your eyes open for something better, but sure will be hard to top this one.

Congrats on the buy of the year from E-Bay! I hope when the article is published and your medal is included that some of those collectors enjoy eating crow, especially certain ones at a well known auction house.

Don

 

[Daedalus]

You did very well with this , and the outcome is awesome ! Great Job .

 

[The Patriot]

WOW....love to read success stories like that...especially from ebay...

 

[romeo-1]

Well done!!! That's a stunner and deserves to be seen. Post this in Best Finds...

 

[Woodland Detectors]

Very good research,story and ending!
Well done.

 

[CRUSADER]

He confirmed it was a genuine period silver medal but he thought it was a "general purpose" medal and "Indian related" but not an Indian Peace Medal.

I still believe the above quote, as many of these medals were produced, I have a book full of different types. The book makes no mention of 'Indian Peace Medals' for this type, but there is no reason why it couldn't have been used in this way.

 

[timekiller]

Bramblefind,
I've seen you pull off some good I'ds in the what is it form. So I no you like to research things & that's good as we all can see. Way to Go on your find. Persistance pays off. Also agree no reason it wouldn't make a good My best finds post.Truely learning what you have or find is just as much of the game as finding it in the first place to me. 8) Good story.

Take Care,
Pete,

 

[Bramblefind]

He confirmed it was a genuine period silver medal but he thought it was a "general purpose" medal and "Indian related" but not an Indian Peace Medal.

I still believe the above quote, as many of these medals were produced, I have a book full of different types. The book makes no mention of 'Indian Peace Medals' for this type, but there is no reason why it couldn't have been used in this way.

Yes I know you feel this way. The collector who purchased this medal is very experienced and probably knows more about it than anyone. He might be writing an article about it - I also understand an article is also due to be forthcoming from the American Numismatic Society.

IMO- This medal is not typical of the other medals you have listed in your book. It is cast, silver, larger sized and it is very rare. There IS documentation of it being issued to N. American Indians and no documentation of it ever being used for anything else.

And the collector you and I quoted above is changing his opinion the more he learns about it

If you look at the established Indian Peace Medals of George III you will also see they are of the same design. I.e:

Undated (ca. 1776-1814) George III Indian Peace Medal. Silver, solid, 78.2mm. Large size. Adams 7.2. ABOUT VF


Price Realized:
$8,050.00

http://www.stacks.com/Lot/ItemDetail/56888

 

[Bramblefind]

Thanks again to everyone who has posted I really appreciate it! I have spent a few months now absorbed by this medal. It's been a real learning experience - not only from the historical research but also in seeing a little about how the world of numismatics operates.

That was a bit of an eye opener.

 

[umrgolf]

Amazing Score

 

[kuger]

Bottom line is you have the $$$$$

 

[CRUSADER]

He confirmed it was a genuine period silver medal but he thought it was a "general purpose" medal and "Indian related" but not an Indian Peace Medal.

I still believe the above quote, as many of these medals were produced, I have a book full of different types. The book makes no mention of 'Indian Peace Medals' for this type, but there is no reason why it couldn't have been used in this way.

Yes I know you feel this way. The collector who purchased this medal is very experienced and probably knows more about it than anyone. He might be writing an article about it - I also understand an article is also due to be forthcoming from the American Numismatic Society.

IMO- This medal is not typical of the other medals you have listed in your book. It is cast, silver, larger sized and it is very rare. There IS documentation of it being issued to N. American Indians and no documentation of it ever being used for anything else.

And the collector you and I quoted above is changing his opinion the more he learns about it

If you look at the established Indian Peace Medals of George III you will also see they are of the same design. I.e:

Undated (ca. 1776-1814) George III Indian Peace Medal. Silver, solid, 78.2mm. Large size. Adams 7.2. ABOUT VF


Price Realized:
$8,050.00

http://www.stacks.com/Lot/ItemDetail/56888

You just proved my point. That picture is exactly like all the others that were produced at the time. Just because they documented the use of them for Peace Medals doesn't mean the were 'designed' & made with that in mind. Because if they were I'll expect a difference

Unless of course the documentation is the commissioning of medal with the Mint.

 

[Bramblefind]

You just proved my point. That picture is exactly like all the others that were produced at the time. Just because they documented the use of them for Peace Medals doesn't mean the were 'designed' & made with that in mind. Because if they were I'll expect a difference

The purpose of granting medals to N. American Indian Chiefs was the main reason most of these medals were made during this time. I don't know that these types of medals were being given out all that much for other reasons. Do you know of any other circumstances for the awarding of these large silver medals with the King on the obverse and the royal arms on the reverse?

The other interesting thing about my medal is that it is cast - which is unusual - as most were struck. There has been some speculation that they may have been produced privately with the intention of being used as gifts for the Indians and were not "official". I believe the collector who purchased my medal might know more about it and I hope when he publishes his article I am able to obtain a copy.

But something I am quite sure of is that he would not have paid me the sum he did unless he was CONFIDENT this medal was rightfully placed in the category of being a North American Indian Peace Medal.