Grinding Stone

[DaveSmith]

Here is probably my best find in my opinion. Haven't shown it here and only a few people have seen it. I found it upside down in a creek that is like a small river that I have found 99 percent of my stuff in and around. Found it about 20 years ago. I have a dry picture of it and some with water standing in it. It will hold 16 ounces of water, I'm not saying they made it for that measured amount, just giving an idea of the depth of it. The side view is 3 inches thick and varies in thickness as it goes around. I wet the "front"? area of it to show the worked out area.

 

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[IMAUDIGGER]

Looks like a natural rock to me. No sign it was altered by man.
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Just kidding! Nice find.

 

[GopherDaGold]

Agree. Rock.

 

[DaveSmith]

No, its not just a rock.

 

[DaveSmith]

gopherdagold,
I respect everyone's opinions here, but I didn't ask for an opinion on the grinding stone because I am sure of what it is. If you are sure it is not, I would welcome your reasons why it is not.
I would be more than willing to drive and meet you half way and show it to you and some of my other stuff I have found, or if you have someone you trust and believe in more than me, close enough in some neighboring states, I would be glad to meet with them and show it and other stuff to them.
Thanks,
David

 

[Mine Shaft]

Don't think its a grinding stone, most grinding stones are very large and have very well defined features to them. These grinding stones pictured are next to a large creek where they worked. You will know when you find grinding stones. Good luck.

 

[Mine Shaft]

Here is one more. This is a very large one measuring 12" across and 9" deep. Native Americans used these grinding stones year after year and most likely would not need to carry a heavy stone with them. When they migrated back and forth from summer to winter it was all there.

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

Hey Dave, what was the setting where you found that?

One year when I was elk hunting we ran across a high elevation camp. There were a half dozen holes ground into some boulders and you could still see where they had set rocks up for tables and chairs.

There were also areas that had been cleared for sleeping and even a walkway between areas.
I think I took photos..I can find them, I'll post them up in the NA forum.

Had I found that rock you posted in that camp, I would have no doubt.

 

[GopherDaGold]

gopherdagold,
I respect everyone's opinions here, but I didn't ask for an opinion on the grinding stone because I am sure of what it is. If you are sure it is not, I would welcome your reasons why it is not.
I would be more than willing to drive and meet you half way and show it to you and some of my other stuff I have found, or if you have someone you trust and believe in more than me, close enough in some neighboring states, I would be glad to meet with them and show it and other stuff to them.
Thanks,
David

Thanks but no.

 

[DaveSmith]

My “Education” on Native American artifacts.
The area I have access to is 120 acres on pretty primitive land that a large creek/small river runs through the middle of. My first find there was a quartz scraper that I picked up and examined for quite some time and decided it had been worked by man. I had not looked at artifacts in books or anywhere else leading up to then. After that, when I went to the property, I would look for items, while walking around, but that wasn’t my main goal while there. After several years, I would find items that were man made, keep them and eventually would look on the web to compare what I had found to examples I would see. I noticed that there were other items posted besides just arrow points and knives etc. Celts, hammers stones, grinding stones, and decided that if there are points there, then there must be tools around also. So I started looking specifically for those items. I had read they would hide some of their stone items, turning their grinding stones upside down to hide them, in the creeks and rivers when they moved camp from winter to summer because, as someone has stated, they were too heavy to move. I started turning over large flat stones and found the one in the picture. It has plenty of places in it that you can tell where it was worked and shaped by man but the picture just doesn’t show. When the south was in the middle of the drought several years ago and the water was way down, I did find a grinding stone, as you guys have pictures of, that is permanent in the bedrock. I also have seen the same bedrock grinding stones in Green River located 20 or 30 miles from my site. So, I have “educated” myself over 30 years, probably the same as 99% of everyone else on this site has by putting time in on the ground and researching what they have found. I will close with this; just because you have not ever seen one or don’t have one doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

Dave, pictures don’t do many objects justice. Especially when viewed on a phone screen.

I’m sure you have found some other great stuff in your wanderings.

Apologize for my joke, I truthfully hadn’t expected the follow ups (given the context in which you were sharing this).

 

[DaveSmith]

Thanks Digger. You said "just kidding" and I accepted that as sincere. And your reply and others that shared their knowledge and asked questions in the other posts is natural and welcomed. That is the way we all learn. The only reason I found this one is I had read somewhere "to go out and turn over flat stones"! And I agree, viewing on a phone screen does not show the detail like viewing it on a computer especially the second picture. You can clearly see the bowl in the middle and the dimples where it was pecked out. And if there are "experts" on this forum that absolutely think it is nothing, then they can rally to have the thread removed. I for one do not want to lead someone a stray with false information.
Dave

 

[GopherDaGold]

gopherdagold,
I respect everyone's opinions here, but I didn't ask for an opinion on the grinding stone because I am sure of what it is. If you are sure it is not, I would welcome your reasons why it is not.
I would be more than willing to drive and meet you half way and show it to you and some of my other stuff I have found, or if you have someone you trust and believe in more than me, close enough in some neighboring states, I would be glad to meet with them and show it and other stuff to them.
Thanks,
David

Are you private messaging everyone else who disagrees with your assessment?

And keep in mind that there's no need to remove a thread simply because it contains incorrect information. We are all here to learn. One thing I've learned is that the longer the explanation, the less likely it is to be an artifact.

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

Dave, I’m learning as I go. The trick to correct identification it seems is not only recognizing shapes, but understanding the mechanics of actual construction and use of tools.

There are a couple things that bother me about the appearance of your stone, but I’m no expert yet and you have stated you are not looking for that type of discussion so let’s just let that go.

Here is a good example of one of my disappointments here...the typical “sorry it’s just a natural stone, I see no evidence it was worked by man”.





I was positive it was an artifact..a grinding stone of some sort. It was found near an area that had obsidian flakes scattered. Despite being told it was just a natural rock, it stayed on a shelf in my house for a couple years. It was perfectly flat and fit my hand perfectly. I could envision it really being useful. Meanwhile I have tripped across some obvious examples of a Mano and have now realized everyone was right. Being flat, fitting my hand, and being found near some human activity is not enough. The rock is not the correct material for a Mano. It is hard and tightly grained.

A good material for a Mano will be a little softer and porous or grainy with tiny voids in the rock. This is so the stone stays “sharp” as it wears down.

In the rock I pictured above, they would have to sharpen it by pecking the face routinely (which it does not show evidence of). That’s a lot of work when there are more suitable materials around.

I pay attention when people provide feedback here because it may be based on a lot of learning or formal education in many cases. In my case the feedback was somewhat helpful.

Your second picture makes it look like a possible metate. Third picture looks like a completely different rock! ; )

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

 

[DaveSmith]

Gopher, The reason I private messaged you is I wasn't sure you would return to the thread and read it. And I wanted to give you an opportunity to see it or again, have someone that is close to me meet me and verify that it is as I state it is. Arm chair quarterbacks are a dime a dozen in every venue I guess. I just hate if for the others that post on this forum and get told they aren't smart enough or posted enough I guess, to recognize something they have and throw it away. This is my last post. Yall have fun in your private/"public" club.

 

[T.C.]

Relax Dave. My wife and me have found plenty of these types. They are shallow grinding bowls/metates. Who knows why the reason they are of poor quality??

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

Dave, I hope you reconsider.

 

[Noah_D]

Dave, I hope you reconsider.

Same Dave! Please stay! I don't know much about this sort of stuff but I enjoyed reading your post.

 

[DaveSmith]

It is a real artifact.
Next:
Too late, the damage is done. Pretty well been called a liar in front of everyone on the forum by this quote from gopherdagold:
“One thing I've learned is that the longer the explanation, the less likely it is to be an artifact.”

Everything I read on here says “tell us all you can about it, the more info the better”
And again, I feel sorry for folks that show their real artifacts and get the same treatment as I. Not looking for any sympathy, just stating the facts.
I do not want anybody censured either.
And you can find these rules on the tab: Forum Actions: Real or Fake
ABOUT THE AUTHENTICITY OF FINDS POSTED AT TREASURENET
Occasionally a member may have doubts about the authenticity of an item posted by another member. Here are a few things to keep in mind:

1. It is NEVER appropriate or permissible, regardless of proof, to state or suggest in an open forum that another member's find may not be genuine— unless, of course, he has raised that possibility himself, or there is an obvious issue that cannot be disputed or ignored (for example, if the word "COPY" is clearly stamped on a coin).

2. It is NEVER appropriate or permissible to suggest that a member may not actually have found the item which he has posted as a find.

3. Members are free to express such opinions to one another in private messages, but should NOT continue to do so if those messages are unwelcome.

4. Do NOT report doubts, suspicions, possibilities, or rumors to moderators or the administrator. Any formal report or complaint should be accompanied by full and absolute proof from independent, authoritative sources that the item is not, and cannot be, genuine.

Failure to follow these guidelines may result in censure, loss of privileges &/or access to certain forums, or outright banning from TreasureNet.

All finds posted are presumed to be genuine, and those who post them are to be respected.

Later,
Dave