$5 Gold Coin - 1913

[goadster]

Well, an interesting last 24 hours. First, last night, I'm checking out my fiance's backyard and got a rapid pulltab beep at about 6 inches down. After pulling the dirt plug out of the ground I noticed the coin at the bottom of the plug. First I thought it was a kid's token, but after wiping it off I saw the 13 stars around the Indian head and the date 1913 at the bottom. Man, talk about a rush!!

Well, I went to a local coin shop to get some information on it. The owner was busy so this young kid took it, went over to the owner for a minute, then came back and said that it was a reproduction made of gold, and that they would only give me current gold value. I stated first that I didn't want to sell it, but was curious as to how he came to a quick conclusion that it was a reproduction. He said he could tell by the weight in his hand (how it felt to him) and the color it was. He didn't explain if it was too heavy or too light to be a real coin and couldn't explain his color question. After I prodded him more for more explanations, he then said that you can always tell a reproduction by a line around the edge where the two sides were in the mold. I asked him to show me a line and he said that my coin didn't have a line but that didn't mean anything, but they would be happy to give me current value for only the gold content. I left with a real bad taste in my mouth about this store. My questions to one and all are the following.

1) Why, and did they make actual reproductions out of solid gold, and what would be the purpose?
2) If it was just like the original, wouldn't that be illegal?
3) Do you think he was trying to rip me off?
4) Since it was 6 inches deep, how could it be a repro? He said "Oh, they've made them for a long time.
Thanks to one and all for letting me ramble, but these last 24 hrs. have been a roller coaster ride......Attached are pics. of the coin. Sorry for the clarity. Seems like the scanner was having trouble with the glare of the coin.....
Thanks!!!!!!! And as always,,,,,,Keep digging!!!! Goadster

 

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[nascarfan]

Goadster, I think that I would hang onto that fiance of yours!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT's good carma.........

 

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[Pangus]

LET ME PREFACE MY FOLLOWING STATEMENT BEFORE EVERYONE THINKS I'M SIDING WITH THE COIN GUY...I DON'T AGREE WITH THE WAY HE SAID WHAT HE DID...BUT I THINK ITS CORRECT. Still, the guy is a jerk and probably wrong about it being fake.

Here goes my explanation:

Gold is $427 an ounce, and at 22k (91.67%pure) similar to the 90/10 gold/copper ratio described earlier by Eurus.
At that rate, gold is $18.45 a gram.
The REAL coin is supposed to weigh 8.359 grams.
Making a real coin worth $154.06
According to Omnicognic's site, the coin is worth $145-$170 in circulated condition.
Seems that his offer of fair market gold value was accurate, but could have been stated better.

I await the rotten vegetables to be thrown.

 

[Bavaria Mike]

Awesome find either way, hope it's the real deal. Gold is gold. I've been digging holes in Germany over 15 years now and still no gold coin, LOL! HH, Mike

 

[goadster]

Well, I'm going out to find a gram scale today and hope it reads 8.359 grams.
It was found with my ACE 250 at about 6 inches........and rang wildly at the pull tab/gold/bronze area of the dial.......
I did measure it and its size is the required 21.6 mm, so at least that is correct. I remember someone saying that it either had to be a different size or have the word "copy" printed somewhere discreetly on one side or the other......I'll keep you posted.....Thanks to one and all...!!! Goadster

 

[morris]

WOW good for you NICE job !!!


Morris
Ocala,Fl 8)

 

[EURUS]

LET ME PREFACE MY FOLLOWING STATEMENT BEFORE EVERYONE THINKS I'M SIDING WITH THE COIN GUY...I DON'T AGREE WITH THE WAY HE SAID WHAT HE DID...BUT I THINK ITS CORRECT. Still, the guy is a jerk and probably wrong about it being fake.

Here goes my explanation:

Gold is $427 an ounce, and at 22k (91.67%pure) similar to the 90/10 gold/copper ratio described earlier by Eurus.
At that rate, gold is $18.45 a gram.
The REAL coin is supposed to weigh 8.359 grams.
Making a real coin worth $154.06
According to Omnicognic's site, the coin is worth $145-$170 in circulated condition.
Seems that his offer of fair market gold value was accurate, but could have been stated better.

I await the rotten vegetables to be thrown.

Quite correct, now you find one and see if you want to sell it.

 

[jeff of pa]

LET ME PREFACE MY FOLLOWING STATEMENT BEFORE EVERYONE THINKS I'M SIDING WITH THE COIN GUY...I DON'T AGREE WITH THE WAY HE SAID WHAT HE DID...BUT I THINK ITS CORRECT. Still, the guy is a jerk and probably wrong about it being fake.

Here goes my explanation:

Gold is $427 an ounce, and at 22k (91.67%pure) similar to the 90/10 gold/copper ratio described earlier by Eurus.
At that rate, gold is $18.45 a gram.
The REAL coin is supposed to weigh 8.359 grams.
Making a real coin worth $154.06
According to Omnicognic's site, the coin is worth $145-$170 in circulated condition.
Seems that his offer of fair market gold value was accurate, but could have been stated better.

I await the rotten vegetables to be thrown.

Your Correct in your Suggestion, IF the Dealer was going to pay him for 22K gold.

He may have tryed to say 14K or worse 10K.

He already lied & said Fake without Even looking at it good.

Just My Take.
JEFF

 

[goadster]

Well, the latest update on the mystery coin.....I didn't get it authenticated today, but I did get it meaured (diameter wise) and digitally weighed. Results came back as 21.6 mm. in dia. (same as mint coin) and the weight came back as 8.35 grams.....I would assume the difference would be in wear after all of these years.....I'll keep you informed the more I get.....Thanks again for all of your help.......Alot of valuable information!!!! Goadster

 

[jeff of pa]

YEP, That Close, I'd say Real.

It don't take Much Gold for .009

 

[rolfecat]

What a great find! Keep at it Goadster! Can't wait to hear the official verdict of authentication! And don't sweat that coin dealer if he was a bit terse; sometimes those guys are tired or busy (and they too are trying to prevent getting ripped off by customers). There are many more dealers who will give you the proper attention and interest in your coin as a prospectve customer. Or you could return and ask for a one-on-one comparison to an authenticated coin.

Hang in there and hang on to that coin!

- Rolfecat

 

[hollowpointred]

that has to be real! .009 of a gram is a very small measurement. im sure they had some sort of tolerance in either direction when they made these.that could account for the differance in weight as well.

 

[Mona Lisa]

Congratulations, Goadster!

Wow, two gold coins in 2 months! First Lonewolfe's and now yours. It gives the rest of us high hopes!

 

[Floater]

LET ME PREFACE MY FOLLOWING STATEMENT BEFORE EVERYONE THINKS I'M SIDING WITH THE COIN GUY...I DON'T AGREE WITH THE WAY HE SAID WHAT HE DID...BUT I THINK ITS CORRECT. Still, the guy is a jerk and probably wrong about it being fake.

Here goes my explanation:

Gold is $427 an ounce, and at 22k (91.67%pure) similar to the 90/10 gold/copper ratio described earlier by Eurus.
At that rate, gold is $18.45 a gram.
The REAL coin is supposed to weigh 8.359 grams.
Making a real coin worth $154.06
According to Omnicognic's site, the coin is worth $145-$170 in circulated condition.
Seems that his offer of fair market gold value was accurate, but could have been stated better.

I await the rotten vegetables to be thrown.

Well let me be the first to pin ya with a tomato! I would buy that coin from goadster for more money than that and it is definetly worth more than its wieght in gold. The Provenance of a fake coin alone is worth a great story and if it is real it is worth more than its wieght also. I am a little disturbed that the coin dealer did not take the time to talk with him and tell him some of the facts that have come to light in the thread here. I really would not trust this person again and certainly not do any business with them. How manby people walk into a coin shop witha gold coin period fake or not.
just my 2grams worth.HH

PS Goadster Great Find. I would never sell it.Regardless of the outcome.

 

[JerV3]

First off congrats on your find. Looks damn real to me. Coin shops and jewelry shops are some of the shadiest people to go to for help. They have to make a living and the only way they do is by telling ordinary guys like us we don't have the real thing. But they still want it. They play that how desperate is this guy stuff first.

They have all this technical bull about varieties and all sorts of other stuff that isn't mentioned in any of the coin books and guides I read. If it was shiny coming out of the ground and has good weight to it. If you can back it up by getting the proper weight and diameter. I'd say it's real. If it's not it's still worth as much as the coin would be anyways. Unless it turned out to be gold plated witch I doubt.

Don't let them rain on your parade. Save it all up for many years and take one lump some and have it assessed for insurance. Then you should know what you really have.

HH Jer

 

[Monty]

That company that pretends to be the US Mint until you read the fine print is making a reproduction of the 20 dollar gold piece. I think the repro is gold plated though. I've seen it advertised on late nite TV. They go into this spiel about how Roosevelt recalled all the gold coins except a few got saved, etc, etc. JIM

 

[goadster]

I'll tell you all what. As a retired teacher, I am learning so much from not only my questions, but all of the postings...There is such a wealth of information on this site. Well, for the latest update on the "gold coin controversy"......the water seems to get more murky at every coin shop......It's a real education in progress just watching these guys work their craft. Today I went south of town (Dayton, Oh) and asked them to check out the coin. He simply took a jeweler's glass and looked at it and said that there was a 50/50 chance of real or repro......I asked him if he would weigh it and he said he didn't need to because weight isn't a factor. It could weigh the same if it was a repro and besides he went to school and was trained to identify coins by simply looking at them. I left with yet another answer. He did, however, give me a card about a grading company just north of Columbus, Oh in Dublin, that will grade the coin for about 20 bucks......By this time I don't care anymore. I'll simply put it down in my safe. Well, I tried one more place on the way home and the guy said, "Now, where did you get this?"....After I said that I found it in an old backyard about 6 inches plus down in the ground, he looked at it, then said that it was the real thing and he would like to buy it, as a gold coin, whenever I wanted to sell it. So, there you have it,,,,,,,,,,,one that said Repro,,,,,,another that said 50/50,,,,,and the last to say it's the real McCoy.......AARRGGHH!!! Tomorrow I will contact ANACS in Dublin and go through the procedure of grading......
I do hope you all are not getting bored with my research. I'm storing all this info. in my memory bank for future reference. So far, it is a good learning experience.......Thanks to one and all and I'll keep you all posted if you'd like.......
In closing, I missed Lonewolfe's gold piece until someone mentioned on this site,,,,,,,,so a belated,,,,Congratulations to Lonewolfe!!!!!!!!!

 

[rolfecat]

Bored
NO WAY!! I've been following this thread closely all week!
Can't wait to hear about the grading information with ANACS.

Hang in there, the truth is about to be clear.

-Rolfecat

 

[EURUS]

Interesting that the coin shop owner is cautious of it being a repo, this is a common reply in their trade. To get anything for less is a higher profit margin. You can take this to the bank, YOUR COIN IS REAL! As for grading, this series is one of the hard ones to accuratly grade. Due to how it is made.

 

[lonewolfe]

Interesting that the coin shop owner is cautious of it being a repo, this is a common reply in their trade. To get anything for less is a higher profit margin. You can take this to the bank, YOUR COIN IS REAL! As for grading, this series is one of the hard ones to accuratly grade. Due to how it is made.[/qoute]

Usually if a dealer knows for sure (or has a good idea that a coin is fake) they will not want to buy it from you. If they tell you it's fake, and then offer a low ball $$ amount, they're trying to pull a fast one (in most cases). I know a dealer that knows his coins, and if it were fake, he'd tell you it was, and he'd tell you to send it in for grading so that the grading co. would send it back to you, and tell you that it's fake. Then he'd make an offer on it in the price range of a fake to pull it off the market to keep it from being passed off as a real coin by "other" dealers who are not so "honest". He's done it with many fakes (especially) high dollar coins (1916-d mercs, 1893-s morgans, 1889 cc morgans, 1909-svdb wheats, seated dollars, trade dollars, gold pieces, etc. etc.).

LET ME PREFACE MY FOLLOWING STATEMENT BEFORE EVERYONE THINKS I'M SIDING WITH THE COIN GUY...I DON'T AGREE WITH THE WAY HE SAID WHAT HE DID...BUT I THINK ITS CORRECT. Still, the guy is a jerk and probably wrong about it being fake.

Here goes my explanation:

Gold is $427 an ounce, and at 22k (91.67%pure) similar to the 90/10 gold/copper ratio described earlier by Eurus.
At that rate, gold is $18.45 a gram.
The REAL coin is supposed to weigh 8.359 grams.
Making a real coin worth $154.06
According to Omnicognic's site, the coin is worth $145-$170 in circulated condition.
Seems that his offer of fair market gold value was accurate, but could have been stated better.

I await the rotten vegetables to be thrown.

This is correct, and a fair market value of a common $5 gold piece. The Avg. price for a circulated (VF - XF - EF) common $5 gold piece will range from approx. $150 - $200 depending,,, believe me,,, if you pay anymore than that for one, you're getting ripped off,

and if you sell one,

$145 to $175 is a fair range for a dealer to pay (they do have to make a few bucks on a coin to stay in business).

You may not like hearing that but, people tend to think their stuff is worth more than it actually is (in a LOT of cases) because, that's just human nature I guess - (example) - I visit my coin shop buddy 2 to 3 times per week, and spend a few hrs at a time with him trading, etc., and people bring all sorts of coins in to have offers made on, and or to sell, appraise, etc.

Someone will bring in $5 face value common junk silver (mercury dimes, roosevelts, washingtons, etc.) and my? buddy makes an offer on it of 5xs face which equates to $25 for their silver,

the current market value of melt silver would put the stuff being worth approx. $23 to melt it down,, he will sell it in the shop for $30 to $35,

but,

the person will look at him like he's out of his mind, and like they think it's worth 100s of $$, and say- No thanks!!

He tells them, "oh well" it's all JUNK anyway so take it somewhere else and see what you get!

OR

someone will bring in a common $5 gold piece, and he'll make an offer of $150, and the same thing happens to where these people think he's trying to rip them off, and say some crap like,

"oh hell no, this thing's got to be worth a LOT more than that"!

Again,

he'll say "Okay, take it somewhere else and see what you get for it"!

But the funniest part is,

when he POINTS out the same date, mint, condition, etc. piece in his case to them, and there's one sitting there marked at maybe $10 higher than he offered them for theirs (again because he has to make a few dollars to stay in business)!!

so,

I too await the rotten vegetables to be thrown at me now because people can't handle the "truth", and or just don't want to!!

If I were you, as someone else suggested, I'd just keep the coin, and add it to all my other finds over the yrs until you have a BIG pile of treasure, it's a nice find (once in a lifetime) and from the looks/sounds of it,

it is a real gold coin!

HH

Lonewolfe

 

[Monty]

I saw that ad again on late night TV. It is for a genuine 14K gold clad reproduction of a $20.00 gold coin dated 1929. They say Roosevelt called in all the gold coins and this may be your last chance to own a "genuine fake" (my words) reproduction. I think your coin is not a fake or reproduction and you should take that to the bank, literally! Congratulations! JIM