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Thread: El Malpais

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  1. #16
    pw
    Apr 2003
    New Mexico
    BS
    2,748
    990 times

    Re: El Malpais

    Quote Originally Posted by lastleg
    Springfield:

    Good day to you sir. What are you current feelings of New Mexico's most
    popular legend, the Lost Adams Diggings? Did it exist? Was it found? And
    if it did exist why hasn't it been found?

    lastleg
    I've been pondering this question for the past 35 years and have collected a couple dozen versions of the legend, including a couple private accounts from the old Silver City mining families of the day. As you know, many of the versions are wildly contradictory with others and can be used to place the diggings all over Arizona and New Mexico depending on whose story you like. If the diggings exist at all, I would tend to place them in SW New Mexico, possibly in the Pinos Altos Range or the Turkey Creek drainage in the Mogollons north of Gila. However, with as many people searching for this rich deposit over the past 145 years, you would think that it certainly would have been located by now, would'nt you?

    If I were to bet on it, I would bet that the diggings never existed. I lean towards the theory that the LAD, like many other lost mine legends, is a coded message designed to pass on information about other activities. Instead of a lost placer mine, I believe that the truth may be that a large cache is the true event that the stories are hinting at.
    "The gods were smiling when you were born. Now they're laughing."​ Chinese fortune cookie

    Karmageddon
    : It's like, when everybody is sending off all those bad vibes, right? And then, like, the earth explodes and it's like, a serious bummer.







  2. #17

    Feb 2008
    2,462
    212 times

    Re: El Malpais

    Thanks, Springfield

  3. #18
    hu
    Gypsyheart~ Queen of Rust

    Nov 2005
    Ozarks
    12,689
    46 times

    Re: El Malpais

    AROUND THE NATION; New Mexico Rancher Charged With 2 Killings


    Published: October 29, 1983
    A rancher who says he is 100 years old was charged with two counts of first- degree murder Thursday.

    The suspect, Gus Raney, a former deputy sheriff, was arrested late Wednesday after officers discovered the bodies of two men on his ranch about 40 miles southeast of Grants, said Sheriff Bill Driggers of Cibola County.

    The victims were identified as Emery Smith, about 60, and his son, Eric, 21, both of Aptos, Calif.

    Mr. Raney was arraigned Thursday and ordered held on $100,000 bond.

    Assistant District Attorney Warren Harris said the sheriff went to the ranch while investigating a missing persons report. He said the wife of the elder Smith, Virginia, said her husband and son had gone to visit Mr. Raney in New Mexico but were overdue. She told the sheriff Mr. Raney was a friend they visited about once a year.


    01 Oct 1956 Gus Raney Deputy Sheriff
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    I go a great distance,while some are considering whether they will start today or tomorrow

  4. #19

    Feb 2008
    2,462
    212 times

    Re: El Malpais

    peterm:

    Thanks, I am glad that someone still thinks the LAD is fact. I like to think so
    too. But if it did exist I think there is no chance the placer gold would still be
    in the same place.

    lastleg

  5. #20
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    5,545
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    Re: El Malpais

    Lastleg wrote
    But if it did exist I think there is no chance the placer gold would still be
    in the same place.
    Gold does not move around like sand or pebbles amigo, it is VERY dense and heavy for its size. The gold of the Lost Adams was supposed to be very coarse in size which would mean it would be even more resistant to being moved by natural processes than fine (flour) gold. I would bet it has not moved more than inches in the mere 150 odd years since Adams was there.

    Good luck and good hunting, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
    Oroblanco
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  6. #21

    Feb 2008
    2,462
    212 times

    Re: El Malpais

    Oroblanco:

    I am honored to hear from you Mr. O. No, sir I didn't mean to imply that
    gold travels around like a hot air baloon. I should have added that the raw
    ore would have been moved, not of it's own accord. Of course the campfire
    cache might still remain but no human tribe would have simply abandoned it.

    I know legend tells us the nomadic peoples had no use for it. But I suggest
    they actually did and would kill to keep it. It may have had no practical use
    that we know of but they traded with the unscrupulous comancheros and
    others and were not so stupid to just leave it lay.

    I also think the legend is highly inflated as to the amount the Adams party
    dug before being attacked. The geology around the most likely site is just
    not that riddled with placer deposits. The only place in western N. Mexico
    that I know of that had numerous placers is west of Elephant Butte Lake.
    I had a second hand report of a miner who supported himself back in the
    60's in the gulches that fed into EB.

    I know a lot of shoe leather has been ground away by persistent searchers.
    not me but another I am aware of. I have reason to believe no one yet has
    located that canyon but who can say?

    I am looking forward to hearing of your sucess or otherwise in the Black
    Hills area.

    sincerely,
    lastleg


  7. #22
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    5,545
    1298 times

    Re: El Malpais

    HOLA amigo Lastleg, thank you for the kind words! I clearly mis-understood what you meant, and yes I agree that the already-mined gold likely has been moved. I also agree that not all Indios were so utterly unaware that gold had trading value either - in fact the Black Hills gold rush all started because Indios brought in gold nuggets to trade at Fort Robinson, and told the traders they got it from the hills - (then Custer was sent in to verify or disprove the story and he gets the blame/credit for the gold rush) and this is documented. Even in the Adams story, it is apparent that Nana knew the yellow metal was valuable to the whites and made the agreement.

    There are a few placer gold deposits in western NM, don't have the refs handy but I don't think any of them were too impressive. In Adams story, the amount of gold MAY have been what he said, as it was a group of men working over time and pooling their gold, plus a "coffee pot" may not have been a huge coffee pot either, maybe a fairly small size of a few cups. The large nugget shown by Adams to various people lends credence to his story (for me) and I do not believe anyone has ever found it since.

    I have to sign off for the night here shortly, having internet problems. (Drat - just when it gets interesting)
    your friend in 'Dakota Territory'
    Roy ~ Oroblanco

    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  8. #23
    pw
    Apr 2003
    New Mexico
    BS
    2,748
    990 times

    Re: El Malpais

    Quote Originally Posted by Oroblanco
    ... There are a few placer gold deposits in western NM, don't have the refs handy but I don't think any of them were too impressive. ...
    The most significent placers were primarily in and around Pinos Altos, NM, where it's still not uncommon to find color if you look in the right places. However, these Bear Creek placers, rediscovered in 1860 when the town was founded (with much evidence of Mexican work done in the 1700's), predated the usual LAD timeframe by about four years, although at least one version of the legend (W.W. Williams') sets the date as the late 1850's. As most LAD researchers know, Jacob Snively was reported to have ridden into Pinos Altos with 500 ounces of placer he recovered '125 miles due north of Pinos Altos' (at least that's the story that's been told). Many speculate that Snively was the 'Dutchman' in the Adams party, and that he made off with his share before the Apaches killed the remaining prospectors.

    This LAD legend is a huge can of worms and I suggest that the new researchers develop a strong frustration tolerance, because with all the conflicting material out there, they're going to need plenty of patience trying to sort it out.
    "The gods were smiling when you were born. Now they're laughing."​ Chinese fortune cookie

    Karmageddon
    : It's like, when everybody is sending off all those bad vibes, right? And then, like, the earth explodes and it's like, a serious bummer.







  9. #24
    us
    finder of the lost

    Jun 2006
    little rock,arkansas
    whites-garret
    412
    1 times

    Re: El Malpais

    good info
    the end

  10. #25
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    5,545
    1298 times

    Re: El Malpais

    Thank you Springfield!
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  11. #26
    us
    Nov 2009
    las cruces nm
    30
    1 times

    Re: El Malpais

    Check out Moggollon and the catwalk. You can still pan mercury from the creek that was washed out from the smelter in the big flood. Still plenty of gold.

  12. #27
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    5,545
    1298 times

    Re: El Malpais

    WELCOME TO TREASURENET Stude! Thanks for the tip!
    Oroblanco
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  13. #28
    us
    Jan 2011
    1

    Re: El Malpais

    I read your post with interest. As Emery's daughter, I have much to disagree with but I understand that stories can get spun out of control. Yes, Dad was interested in the gold and took me to visit Gus several years before. I remember sitting in their simple cabin with a dirt floor and visiting with Gus and Sugarfoot. He was never threatening to us and I remember him as odd but never dangerous. My father adored my twin, Erik, and would never intentionally put him in danger. They both went to New Mexico to deliver bibles to the area families. As I am sure Dad was still interested in talking to Gus about the gold (since Gus was getting very old) he was also concerned about his spiritual life. He wanted to see if Gus had made peace with God. Of course, I had never heard about his previous run ins with the law. Yes, my father had poor business acumen as he trusted too many people and extended credit to those unworthy of that grace. He wanted to believe in and help others, especially during this period of his life. He was not a greedy man and would never put people in danger for such a motive.

  14. #29
    us
    Feb 2011
    7
    1 times

    Re: El Malpais

    Quote Originally Posted by Springfield
    For decades, from the 1930's when he was run out of Grant County and settled at the edge of the Grants lava flow on Hwy 117, until his death in the early 1980's, Gus Raney was widely rumored to be the guardian of some sort of golden treasure located within the lava flow. Descriptions of the treasure vary greatly, but Gus allegedly killed more than a few TH-ers snooping around in the malpais.

    By the way, when Gus died at age 104, he was sitting in a jail cell awaiting trial for double murder of a retired trasury agent and his son who were allegedly looking for gold in the malpais.
    do you know what treasure Gus was linked too?

  15. #30
    pw
    Apr 2003
    New Mexico
    BS
    2,748
    990 times

    Re: El Malpais

    Quote Originally Posted by dlogua1756
    Quote Originally Posted by Springfield
    For decades, from the 1930's when he was run out of Grant County and settled at the edge of the Grants lava flow on Hwy 117, until his death in the early 1980's, Gus Raney was widely rumored to be the guardian of some sort of golden treasure located within the lava flow. Descriptions of the treasure vary greatly, but Gus allegedly killed more than a few TH-ers snooping around in the malpais.

    By the way, when Gus died at age 104, he was sitting in a jail cell awaiting trial for double murder of a retired trasury agent and his son who were allegedly looking for gold in the malpais.
    do you know what treasure Gus was linked too?
    No. Speculation ranges widely: Lost Adams site; 'Church treasure'; gold from Spanish packtrain massacre at The Narrows; and Lordsburg bank robbery loot are the ones I've heard. If I had to guess, based on Raney's past and some information passed down from the Hidalgo County's sheriff's family, I'd go for the bank robbery stash - gold coins for the railroad payroll. Just my opinion, no evidence.
    "The gods were smiling when you were born. Now they're laughing."​ Chinese fortune cookie

    Karmageddon
    : It's like, when everybody is sending off all those bad vibes, right? And then, like, the earth explodes and it's like, a serious bummer.







 

 
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