Any input on faint tones that don't ID?

[atomicscott]

Hi Everybody!
2nd hunt with Simplex today. First V nickel (1908) and Bull Durham 'Heads or Tails' token. Got a lot of faint signals with no ID#s. Switched from Park 2 to field mode to help ID, but the signals I dug were deep can slaw, etc... Any info on whether these targets should be dug everytime would be very helpful! Thanks in advance, Scott

 

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[Swaveab]

Until you're sure about the detector it might be a good idea to dig all for awhile even going deeper with the faint signals.

 

[smokeythecat]

You need to dig what appears to be non iron but no VDI. Sometimes relying on a VDI is a big mistake. I dug a civil war watch winder at almost a foot, no VDI. Same thing with buttons, coins and musket balls. If you don't dig some aluminum, you're not doing it right.

 

[mts]

What version of software are you using? Each version of software tends to behave differently on deep targets. 2.77 seems to give IDs for deeper targets that 2.78 will not give an ID for.

 

[atomicscott]

What version of software are you using? Each version of software tends to behave differently on deep targets. 2.77 seems to give IDs for deeper targets that 2.78 will not give an ID for.

I'm using 2.78, I am curious to try 2.77 from what you say and what I have read. Thanks for the info!

 

[atomicscott]

You need to dig what appears to be non iron but no VDI. Sometimes relying on a VDI is a big mistake. I dug a civil war watch winder at almost a foot, no VDI. Same thing with buttons, coins and musket balls. If you don't dig some aluminum, you're not doing it right.

Thanks! Not much chance of musket balls here in SoCal. But I did dig some fairly deep smashed aluminum cans and canslaw that had no ID, just faint tones. I will keep working those signals. What version software are you running.

 

[Richard Guy]

no vdi = deep and curious

folks say 2.77 is chatty, ... I say its chatty because its finding things. 2.77 works best for me.

 

[mts]

It depends on where you are detecting. If you are in a farm field looking for relics then I would say to dig those signals. If you are on a stream bank where bedrock is likely only a couple of inches deep, I would pass on those because they are almost always trash. You aren't likely to get a 10" deep signal on a stream bed or bank so anything good is typically well within the reach of the detector. In a park, I would try to make a determination based on relative trash levels and how likely the park is to have deep silver. You can drive yourself nuts trying to dig every little squeak your machine makes in a trashy park.

And of course, I change my mind based on just how darn tired I am and what I've been finding so far. If I've already wasted an hour digging 50 little pieces of foil I tend to throw in the towel and go for the sure bets.

 

[mts]

no vdi = deep and curious

folks say 2.77 is chatty, ... I say its chatty because its finding things. 2.77 works best for me.

I am liking 2.77. I think it gives you about 1" more target ID depth based on some air tests I've been doing. I don't think it is deeper overall. But I think it will give you a target ID (that bounces around more) on some of those signals you are talking about.

As an example of one of my recent air tests, with 2.77 I got a target ID of 65-82 on an 8" dime. It did not give me a depth indicator which tells me it is a very deep signal. Because the numbers are jumping around an average value of about 73, I know that it is a high conductivity signal (not foil or small shredded aluminum). So I would dig that target.

On the same 8" target with 2.78 I get no target ID and no depth indicator (but I still get a beep). But on a 7" dime with 2.78, I get a target ID of 70-80 and no depth indicator. So it seems like you lose an inch of target ID depth with 2.78. And it doesn't matter what type of target it is. I see this same behavior from nickels to silver dollars.

So I think that 2.77 will result in you having fewer signals that have no target ID. The target ID won't be as stable, but you can still kind of tell what range the target is by averaging the lowest and highest numbers. If it is bouncing between 60 and 80 it is probably in the 70s. Something bouncing between 20 and 40 is probably around the 30s. And I should point out that with 2.77 the target ID numbers are just as stable as 2.78 if the target is not really deep. The only difference I see between the two versions is with those really deep targets that are just at the cusp of detection. 2.77 will still give you a target ID and 2.78 will not.

Note that these numbers are with the SP24 coil. With the stock coil and 2.77, I get somewhere between 1.5" and 2" more depth with air tests. But the stock coil is not nearly as quiet as the SP24 so in some areas you may end up having to turn the sensitivity down with the stock coil where you could run it at full sensitivity with the SP24.

 

[atomicscott]

It depends on where you are detecting. If you are in a farm field looking for relics then I would say to dig those signals. If you are on a stream bank where bedrock is likely only a couple of inches deep, I would pass on those because they are almost always trash. You aren't likely to get a 10" deep signal on a stream bed or bank so anything good is typically well within the reach of the detector. In a park, I would try to make a determination based on relative trash levels and how likely the park is to have deep silver. You can drive yourself nuts trying to dig every little squeak your machine makes in a trashy park.

And of course, I change my mind based on just how darn tired I am and what I've been finding so far. If I've already wasted an hour digging 50 little pieces of foil I tend to throw in the towel and go for the sure bets.

Good info, makes sense. Thanks!

 

[atomicscott]

I am liking 2.77. I think it gives you about 1" more target ID depth based on some air tests I've been doing. I don't think it is deeper overall. But I think it will give you a target ID (that bounces around more) on some of those signals you are talking about.

As an example of one of my recent air tests, with 2.77 I got a target ID of 65-82 on an 8" dime. It did not give me a depth indicator which tells me it is a very deep signal. Because the numbers are jumping around an average value of about 73, I know that it is a high conductivity signal (not foil or small shredded aluminum). So I would dig that target.

On the same 8" target with 2.78 I get no target ID and no depth indicator (but I still get a beep). But on a 7" dime with 2.78, I get a target ID of 70-80 and no depth indicator. So it seems like you lose an inch of target ID depth with 2.78. And it doesn't matter what type of target it is. I see this same behavior from nickels to silver dollars.

So I think that 2.77 will result in you having fewer signals that have no target ID. The target ID won't be as stable, but you can still kind of tell what range the target is by averaging the lowest and highest numbers. If it is bouncing between 60 and 80 it is probably in the 70s. Something bouncing between 20 and 40 is probably around the 30s. And I should point out that with 2.77 the target ID numbers are just as stable as 2.78 if the target is not really deep. The only difference I see between the two versions is with those really deep targets that are just at the cusp of detection. 2.77 will still give you a target ID and 2.78 will not.

Note that these numbers are with the SP24 coil. With the stock coil and 2.77, I get somewhere between 1.5" and 2" more depth with air tests. But the stock coil is not nearly as quiet as the SP24 so in some areas you may end up having to turn the sensitivity down with the stock coil where you could run it at full sensitivity with the SP24.

Thanks so much for this info. The averaging of ID#s makes sense, I like this tactic. May give 2.77 a shot after I put some more hours on the machine. Scott

 

[pescadore]

Good information but my results were a little different. I have a newly buried silver dime at 8-9 inches in my yard and had no problem getting audible and VDI with the SP24. The VDI was definitely jumpy but I would dig it . I also haven’t had the issue with no depth reading. With the SP24 the depth meter on the dime is pegged. I used both versions 2.77 and 2.78 and saw negligible difference if any in my soil. 2.77 did seem a little more unstable and chatty.

 

[mts]

Good information but my results were a little different. I have a newly buried silver dime at 8-9 inches in my yard and had no problem getting audible and VDI with the SP24. The VDI was definitely jumpy but I would dig it . I also haven’t had the issue with no depth reading. With the SP24 the depth meter on the dime is pegged. I used both versions 2.77 and 2.78 and saw negligible difference if any in my soil. 2.77 did seem a little more unstable and chatty.

I have never seen a "VDI with no depth indicator" out in the field. But I can easily reproduce it when doing air tests. There is this very small window where you can make it happen. And it is consistently easy to notice when doing air tests. That's why I specifically used that point because I could compare coils easier using that more consistent point of reference.

You may never see it out in the field. But if it ever happens it will be an indication that the signal is very deep and is just at the point where your detector can barely detect it.

 

[BluedogRon]

I'm using 2.78, I am curious to try 2.77 from what you say and what I have read. Thanks for the info!

I am new to detecting but have been looking into the Simplex and seen that ver. 2.78 came out because some did not like the chatter after they upgraded the depth in 2.77. Ver. 2.78 was only to get the lower depth back to where it was in ver. 2.76.

 

[pescadore]

I am new to detecting but have been looking into the Simplex and seen that ver. 2.78 came out because some did not like the chatter after they upgraded the depth in 2.77. Ver. 2.78 was only to get the lower depth back to where it was in ver. 2.76.

In my dirt the 2.77 version is not any deeper if as deep as 2.78. I have a freshly buried 8-9 inch silver dime in my yard and I tested both versions on that dime using the SP24 coil. (I completed it again today to verify my previous findings) There was very little difference in the audible signal or VDI in both versions. They both were a little jumpy but I got a better result from 2.78 with several 82's and 83's mixed in with the 90's VDI. With 2.77 the ID never left the 90's. I personally prefer 2.78 because it is more stable and less noisy in my yard. The Simplex+ is a good detector and has great performance with the stock coil and the SP24. I read the same information that you did about the update and it did say that if you were pleased with the ID at depth and that you were getting with 2.77 that you should not update to 2.78. It also stated that the overall depth and performance of the detector is not affected. The ID at depth was apparently affected but in my dirt, in my yard, 2.78 performs better. I think it is mainly personal preference and which ever version you are comfortable with is the one you should use.

 

[Swaveab]

Welcome to TNET BlueDogRon.

 

[louisianaman]

Chatty means you have a hot rod with a bad ass cam slowly idling!

 

[eyemustdigtreasure]

ALL you guys are great - doing what I hoped you'd do - clue me in, too...!
Yeah, I just got my Simplex a week ago, and have hunted six days of that...!
Yes, I've noted the signals/tones, when there was no corresponding VDI number.
I went with the numbers I knew from at first, a did pretty good in hunted-out location.
I use the tones anyway, and if it was consistent - dig it!

 

[louisianaman]

I saw it today on several targets and dug a couple. I thought the depth indicator was acting up. Thanks

 

[eyemustdigtreasure]

I am new to detecting but have been looking into the Simplex and seen that ver. 2.78 came out because some did not like the chatter after they upgraded the depth in 2.77. Ver. 2.78 was only to get the lower depth back to where it was in ver. 2.76.

Welcome to Treasurenet!
I'm glad you picked the Simplex - me too! ~now, WE have to LEARN it...!