New record clovis

[shorelinesearcher]

Saw this yesterday in the Murray Ledger & Times. Thought you guys would like to see this if you haven't already.

http://www.murrayledger.com/articles/2010/06/20/top_story/news01.txt

Any thoughts about authenticity?

mike

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Family Maps of Hinds County, Mississippi, Deluxe Edition - Grab it through Amazon!

[joshuaream]

Zim,

Yes, Anzick is/was a burial.

Is an insitu picture helpful for authentication? I guess almost any insitu picture can be faked/staged, but it certainly provides context. I absolutely love them.

joshua

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Family Maps of Hinds County, Mississippi, Deluxe Edition - Grab it through Amazon!

[joshuaream]

Stumbled upon this older thread....read the whole thing and just gotta know.....what has happened to this artifact?.....and has a consensus ever been reached as to its authenticity?

Interesting to read through this old thread. I wrote a few absolutely cringe-worthy things, I guess I am a bit more jaded about authenticators and any notion of good guy/bad guy dynamic in the money side of our hobby.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Wow, I had completely forgotten about this thread. Whatever did become of this Point? I saw it at a show and my first thought was bad.

 

[OntarioArch]

Glad I bumped it....was concerned it might be bad form...
So, yeah, what did happen to that point?

 

[Hippy]

I don't know that anyone has seen it since it's initial walk around at shows. I know it was sold to a guy in TN by the finder.

I have not personally seen it at any of the southern shows I've been to since shortly after it was found. I only attend a few of the larger ones down that way, but it hasn't showed up. The general consensus seemed to be, that no matter how many papers it had, it was not authentic. There's some that claim to know the knapper that made it and so forth.

All I can speak to is my brief time seeing it in person, and I would not be comfortable owning for any amount of money.

Hippy

 

[Dirttrax]

I don't know that anyone has seen it since it's initial walk around at shows. I know it was sold to a guy in TN by the finder.

I have not personally seen it at any of the southern shows I've been to since shortly after it was found. I only attend a few of the larger ones down that way, but it hasn't showed up. The general consensus seemed to be, that no matter how many papers it had, it was not authentic. There's some that claim to know the knapper that made it and so forth.

All I can speak to is my brief time seeing it in person, and I would not be comfortable owning for any amount of money.

Hippy

It was sold to a guy in Henderson county TN and he sold it to a big shot from Memphis. Idk what it sold to the Memphis guy for but have several locals say the guy here in Henderson county give 75k for it.

 

[dirstscratcher]

At the time it first surfaced, I communicated with Dr. Tankersly, and he felt it was modern from the photos, he hadn't had hands on at the time. He also said that several folks he had talked to also felt they knew who the knapper was. I don't know if he ever changed his opinion, but he's the only person I'd ever trust to authenticate a valuable Clovis.

 

[Sunny Side]

At the time it first surfaced, I communicated with Dr. Tankersly, and he felt it was modern from the photos, he hadn't had hands on at the time. He also said that several folks he had talked to also felt they knew who the knapper was. I don't know if he ever changed his opinion, but he's the only person I'd ever trust to authenticate a valuable Clovis.

Tankersly was my old prof. At NKU. Took an MA course of his. He is knowledgeable. I use to see him in the Geology lab looking at rocks.

As for the Clovis, it’s faker than my mother in-laws nose. My opinion.

 

[ToddsPoint]

Material looks like Dover. With that perfect edge outline my gut feeling is it's modern. Woody Blackwell style? Here's one of his for comparison. Gary

 

[Sunny Side]

Material looks like Dover. With that perfect edge outline my gut feeling is it's modern. Woody Blackwell style? Here's one of his for comparison. Gary

View attachment 1787907

Yes looks very similar. The basal area on both are too constricted. The flute itself is a good place to start. I don’t like “wandering” flutes or wavy lines within the flute. I think that smooth straight flute through some people off on the one that was sold because it looks correct.

 

[RustyRelics]

Let me tell you this. No point that large would survive thousands of years sloshing around in a creek, getting tumbled, having sediments rub against it, etc. No dings, no chips, no missing ears, perfect form? I doubt it.

Another thing, creek points have a hella lot of weird patina on them. I don't think it would be so easily identifiable, or that color.

And lastly, I do not like accusing people, especially when it comes to naming names, but that does look Blackwell style to me. Woody Blackwell

 

[Sunny Side]

Let me tell you this. No point that large would survive thousands of years sloshing around in a creek, getting tumbled, having sediments rub against it, etc. No dings, no chips, no missing ears, perfect form? I doubt it.

Another thing, creek points have a hella lot of weird patina on them. I don't think it would be so easily identifiable, or that color.

And lastly, I do not like accusing people, especially when it comes to naming names, but that does look Blackwell style to me. Woody Blackwell

And you know what? That monstrosity was papered by a well known once respected COA guy. Lol. No names, but I heard it was handled and looked at and given the nod by some well known people. I am just a believer that many collectors don’t have a clue or they are all in in it together which is totally possible. A few grand for everyone!

 

[Fred250]

Not that I’ll ever know but the high end collecting seems more trouble than it’s worth.

 

[Relicgrubber]

Let me tell you this. No point that large would survive thousands of years sloshing around in a creek, getting tumbled, having sediments rub against it, etc. No dings, no chips, no missing ears, perfect form? I doubt it.

Another thing, creek points have a hella lot of weird patina on them. I don't think it would be so easily identifiable, or that color.

And lastly, I do not like accusing people, especially when it comes to naming names, but that does look Blackwell style to me. Woody Blackwell

I’m not saying it’s authentic, but Why would you think it was in a creek for thousands of years?

Pro Tip: Artifacts wash out of the dirt into creeks all the time after heavy rainfall in the present...

 

[RustyRelics]

I’m not saying it’s authentic, but Why would you think it was in a creek for thousands of years?

Pro Tip: Artifacts wash out of the dirt into creeks all the time after heavy rainfall in the present...

If it was in dirt, then washed out and ended up in the creek, that makes it even more suspicious, because in my opinion, travel from bank to creek with rocks would be quite perilous. For it to come out without so much as a nick is fishy. I live in Kentucky, and I can attest as to how rocky our creeks are, and usually how damaged artifacts are when they come out.

 

[Sunny Side]

I’m not saying it’s authentic, but Why would you think it was in a creek for thousands of years?

Pro Tip: Artifacts wash out of the dirt into creeks all the time after heavy rainfall in the present...

I am sorry. Take away all the aforementioned. The Clovis in question just looks fake. Period. If you want to use deduction which all good collectors practice, neat flaking, and material should be obvious.

 

[Relicgrubber]

Cool story bro...

 

[sandchip]

If it was in dirt, then washed out and ended up in the creek, that makes it even more suspicious, because in my opinion, travel from bank to creek with rocks would be quite perilous. For it to come out without so much as a nick is fishy. I live in Kentucky, and I can attest as to how rocky our creeks are, and usually how damaged artifacts are when they come out.

Surprisingly, points and blades fare much better in creeks and rivers than they do in fields, by far. This one was particularly amazing to me especially considering how violent the stream can be and often is.

 

[RustyRelics]

Surprisingly, points and blades fare much better in creeks and rivers than they do in fields, by far. This one was particularly amazing to me especially considering how violent the stream can be and often is.

View attachment 1788497 View attachment 1788498 View attachment 1788500

I was more talking about large points, but I can see some exceptions. Usually around here, everything is nicked, and stained.