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[Get-the-point]

There was a post on here yesterday, it had a beautiful flawless Hardin and a Flawless Dovetail. The Hardin was black and looked like Sonora. These artifacts were posted by a new poster. After reading all the replies, I called them for what I saw in them. They looked Modern. They had no patination and looked too modern for them to be rolling in a river for a couple of thousand years. Anyway I said something about it nicely and was looking forward to hearing from others there opinion, so i go online to see and it is gone. Does anyone know what else was said after my post or did he pull it before anyone else could agree with my opinion. Pretty strange that he did that after my post and does not allow anyone elses feedback or his feedback for that instance......... Keep your collection clean all!!!..........................GTP

 

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[Flintfinder of Mo.]

I deleted the post because it ticked me off....... I commented on the post.....I give everybody the benefit of the doubt.... We have had Members barred from this site for telling others their point is a fake..... Its really is in the rules of this site, that your not supposed to do it...
That being said, I felt you did it in a good way, so I left it up....
The poster then Came forward, Said he was sorry, and he was just testing our knowledge... We have people ask us all the time "Do you think its real" etc..... I was sore about him claiming to have found them....

That's why its gone...... PS... None of us are photo authenticators, and I've seen this kind of stuff get real heated...... Bad News....
John

 

[Flintfinder of Mo.]

One more thing,, Before I became a Moderator...... Just a regular member of this forum... I was Banned twice for calling a guy out on this same thing.... Like I said this kinda stuff can get ugly quick.... I dont want anyone getting excited and kicked off.....

 

[Get-the-point]

Agreed John....................I was trying to be nice about it. They were obvious though and I did not see any comment towards them possibly being fake. So as long as people want to "Test us", I say be prepared to be tested. I will never hold back out of fear of being banned for telling the truth about a piece. I would hope that before anyone gets banned that there is a proper investigation to the allegation and a couple of other opinions to insure a proper jugdement. As far as teaching people, I feel knowledge is power and anyone needing it and if I know it I share it. I hate to bring them to a field though and see them constantly bringing up rocks to me only to toss them. There faces get to you after a while and you feel bad and start planting them in front of them so they do find one.............My girl was the worst with that, then one day she told me as she was walking up to me that, "This better be one or i'm done!!!" sure enough she had a woodland triangle that was perfect. She was so happy and ended up finding more that day!!! Patience and persistence and learning what you find and all the traits involved helped me learn how to determine modern verse ancient, rechipped verse natural..............................GTP...........................

 

[Twitch]

GTP - those two points were so obvious it was hardly worth pointing out. Generally if they're not good points I'll ignore them or ask questions trying to get the poster to hang themselves, as I did in this case. Like John said though, I thought we weren't supposed to call something out as fake. If someone wants to post some junk then ignore it and move on is my opinion.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

I saw those and knew immediately they weren't real, but I too was banned when I first joined here because I called out a guy named LuckyInKentucky who had posted an obvious fake Cumberland and was trying to pass it off as being found in a cave. I learned my lesson and stear clear of those kind of posts now.

 

[Get-the-point]

Getting banned should not be the case when calling out the obvious. Enticing a person and leading the rest of the members to believe that you think they are real in the hopes of the person "hanging themselves" is misleading and not teaching anyone anything. If you see it that way, call it that way or run the risk of them possibly getting on the banner and or teaching amateur collectors that perfect points like that are worth buying........................I love it when people sit back and hope and not step up and speak!! I will always tell it how it is if I know the answer is correct. SRV, I hear you on that, but when this site is meant to teach as well as exhibit there should always be the pro's and con's of a post!! If not the forum is already biased on the posts as no negative feedback can be given. I understand you not wanting to stir the pot again............................GTP

 

[cheese]

I can see keeping folks from debating the legitimacy of a find in the metal detecting forum. I mean, an indian head cent is still an indian head cent whether you legitimately dug it up or not. They generally aren't worth much anyway and who really cares.

When you talk about Indian artifacts, however, fakes are a huge part of the topic. I'd say nearly 50% of the "artifacts" floating around commercial venues are fakes...especially when you consider Ebay. You can't have a serious/credible aritifact forum, show pics of recent acquisitions, and not be able to tell someone you think they got ahold of a fake. Fakes are part of the hobby, and honing the skill to be able to tell the difference is an extremely important and necessary part of the hobby. How you go about doing it makes all the difference in the world though. Posting reasons you think the point is suspect is much more productive than "calling someone out". Having a forum where you can post fakes and have the members all say "how nice" and "nice find" or else they get banned just removes all credibility from the forum and the members with real knowledge will find better places to converse. I don't make the rules here by any means, heck, I don't even participate that often, but I think there should be some tolerance for questioning the legitimacy of questionable finds if done in a professional manner. In the artifact forum...that is.

 

[Get-the-point]

I can see keeping folks from debating the legitimacy of a find in the metal detecting forum. I mean, an indian head cent is still an indian head cent whether you legitimately dug it up or not. They generally aren't worth much anyway and who really cares.

When you talk about Indian artifacts, however, fakes are a huge part of the topic. I'd say nearly 50% of the "artifacts" floating around commercial venues are fakes...especially when you consider Ebay. You can't have a serious/credible aritifact forum, show pics of recent acquisitions, and not be able to tell someone you think they got ahold of a fake. Fakes are part of the hobby, and honing the skill to be able to tell the difference is an extremely important and necessary part of the hobby. How you go about doing it makes all the difference in the world though. Posting reasons you think the point is suspect is much more productive than "calling someone out". Having a forum where you can post fakes and have the members all say "how nice" and "nice find" or else they get banned just removes all credibility from the forum and the members with real knowledge will find better places to converse. I don't make the rules here by any means, heck, I don't even participate that often, but I think there should be some tolerance for questioning the legitimacy of questionable finds if done in a professional manner. In the artifact forum...that is.

Thank you for your comment and support. When I replied to the poster I did list the reasons I suspected they were modern verse old. That was the reason John allowed it to stay. I did not however know that you cannot tell someone that they have a modern piece without being banned for it. That is wrong and now I think the rule should be changed for the benefit of the forum..........................GTP

 

[Flintfinder of Mo.]

Look Here's the deal guys... Its a good rule for this reason.... If someone says they found something, you shouldn't call them a liar from just looking at a pic.... I have seen point after point found that are just incredable, and if I didn't spend as much time on-line with some of these folks( its been years with some of you). I could very well scream fake..
To be Honest, when the new point on the banner came on... I didn't say anything right away cause I thought HMMM.. After hearing from people who have seen it ,and know the guy.. Its the real deal... I am glad I didn't scream it from the roof top Fake.


If you think it a modern re pro Hit the report to Moderater button, and tell me what you think... Don't get in a mud slinging match over it.

On the other side if you did find a rare g-10 gem point, and you were being beat up over it.... Imagine how you would feel..

I think we have a pretty clean forum, and its because people know... We know what we are doing....

Steve... Ole Lucky....got me put in time out twice.....LOL

 

[joshuaream]

All good reasons not to scream fake when you have doubts, but guys like Lucky were out to sell those things after building a history... Steve and others did the right thing by noticing it and calling bull @hit before it manage to sell it to someone on the board. I congratulated him (sarcastically, but he didn't get it) on another board and about 20 minutes later I had a private message to offering to sell some of his special finds because his daughter was sick, he got laid off, etc. etc. etc.

 

[Get-the-point]

Steve... Ole Lucky....got me put in time out twice.....LOL

LOL!!!Now that is funny.............

 

[DigginThePast]

Guys, read the following link:
http://forum.treasurenet.com/authenticity

I don't think the idea is to stifle questions regarding a find or circumstances of how it was found. Rather, it is intended to keep the fighting down and maintain a friendly atmosphere.

Imagine you made a great find and came to the forum to share it. Then imagine you are called a liar and your find a fake. Further, imagine your a newbie that finds a beautiful point that happens to be a modern repro that the neighbor kid lost in a field, then you get slammed on a forum. Without specifically disallowing this behavior on the boards they could become mired with fighting posts due to disbelief and downright jealousy.

Most folks can see what is happening when they see what appears to be an outstanding find with little replies versus what appears to be a mediocre find with many many responses.

As for the post in question. I believe that it is also against the rules to make a fraudulent post, I'd say he got off easy with having Flintfinder of Mo being the one to pull the post. I'd not have been so nice about a member trying to pull such a stunt.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Here you go guys. I forgot I still had a picture of ole Lucky's Cumberland.

He finally came clean after being banned from 2 other sites and said that one of his buddies was trying to pull a fast one on him and had planted a cast in the cave for him to find. I don't know if any of you have ever held a "cast", but it is obvious as soon as you pick one up that they aren't real. They have no weight at all to them and they don't even feel real. He knew exactly what he was doing. I think he ended up posting mostly on the Knappers forum under another name for a while and then completely disappeared.

 

[Flintfinder of Mo.]

Steve... You forgot to add that 2 days before he found that... He was on the forum asking Where could he find a Cumberland point... Then Bammo... Hey guys LOOKIE here..... The cumberland is just one example of this guys games... He was not even a very good Stupid guy.... John At least we can laugh at it today

 

[The Grim Reaper]

That's right. I had forgotten all about that John. I also liked how he said that he found it fully exposed on the surface of a dry cave. Just how does a 10 to 12 thousand year old point get to the surface of a cave completely exposed?

Another guy that was a real hoot was the one with the rocks that he swore were Effigies. He even had one of the Virgin Mary found here in the USA before Jesus was even born. Now that's a real trick. Must have been pyschic Indians. lol

 

[ShowmeMoflint]

Yep I remember when that went down. Kinda funny how the guy can talk about finding a Cumberland point which are rare in my opinion and then two days later low and behold a FAKE CUMBERLAND wow what nerves some people have

 

[SOHIO]

I replied to that post and said nice or awesome something like that , I would be pretty easy to fool while just browsing the site, i mean you come to just trust the posts. I couldn't understand posting a fake to see the replies or? whatever narcisistic ( I'm one to talk ) reasons they would have to do so. But I did notice the notching on the one that was on the right. I recently seen a point given to someone for christmas that had similar notching and I thought it might had been a fake too but I didn't say anything. It was supposedly found with three other nice points during deer season in some newly turned dirt, that the owner will not show me I don't know much about fakes never seen any that I can remember but some features jump out at you when you've handled enough real ones. It seemed the notching was fluted so to say

 

[dredger1]

I apologize again to the group again for the post, I should have known better! I did the "rolling eyes" after the post as a give-a-way. I did feel bad after the post, although it was on a bet. Hope my better judgment will prevail in the future.....

 

[SOHIO]

Hope my better judgment will prevail in the future.....

me too