Seeing the copper marks

[theonlinefisherman]

Hey all. Today was a day of gathering and organizing my collection. I like myself today. And so, too, does my wife. As the collection grows my small piece of (big) house my wife allows me to use as museum shrinks

I am writing a story. I need your help to make it better.

Tell me how you know a point is a kill. I have had pieces killed that were authentic. I am also a pretty good knapper, and am working my way through the Overton book. I love to work with original and point-accurate materials. But I know my work. I have friends that know points that I could fool. So could any decent knapper. And if you see the work of guys like paleomanjim on YouTube, they do freaken Daltons and can push flutes all the way to the point of raw flint.

So here is the help I need. How do you know a point is real? I hate to say my gut is as important, and so, too is any of the COA masters we all know. Those guys have their stuff papered by each other.

What are the three things you look for that tells you something is fake? Or real? Patina is obvious. Copper marks are obvious (Daltons cannot be made with antler). What else? What do you us to look? A loupe? A microscope? Digital macro cameras?

Sent from my iPad using TreasureNet

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Diving for Pleasure and Treasure - Grab it through Amazon!

[GatorBoy]

Nice one!

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

How to Research for Treasure Hunting and Metal Detecting From Lead Generation to Vetting - Grab it through Amazon!

[NC field hunter]

This turns out to be a perfect time for me to post these items I recovered from a site hear in Florida. The site has produced points from middle archaic all the way to Mississippian even a black glass arrowhead. What do you guys think? I'm only posting this here because I thought it may be relevant to the spread of copper.
These were burried amongst pottery and even bone tools
<img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=676862"/>

<img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=676863"/>

<img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=676865"/>

What are they Gator? Or is that your question too? Looks like jewelry. Is it?

 

[GatorBoy]

One is a rolled copper conical spear point. Simmilar to Tomclark's I'm clueless on the twists.

 

[Tnmountains]

three things huh?...ok...
1. hanging flakes...those tiny pieces that should have come off with wear.
2. I like to see some relative "smoothness"...not jagged razor sharpness.
3. perfection of style shape. "all XYZ look like THIS"...and what do you know BAM this one is a perfect example of it.

more...

4. I check out ebay all the time for fun, I enjoy spotting fakes by looking at profiles of what else the guy has sold. Dead giveaway....some unique looking stone that the guy has multiple examples of in different styles and time periods.

I caught one guy once buying advertized repros...roughing them up...and selling them months later as "my connections on the res sold me...blah, blah, blah."

...most of all, I trust what I have found MYSELF.

Hey Uncle Mac sometimes those little fractures that look like they should pop off especially in freezes are still present here in the south. Especially that hornstone. I know I have found many that I bet I could pop with my fingernail and some are as sharp as the day they were made. If a point was placed in a spot and buried to only wash out later it may be just perfect. But I agree with you on E-Bay. I know a girl selling some stuff on e-bay she found I know for fact they are real but no takers yet. So it is hit or miss. Lot of people buy good large collections and break them up and sell them one by one. I see a lot of stuff listed as being from my hunting grounds. Some of it looks correct : ( then you see the obvious stuff posted that might be good but the area and material is all wrong so buyer beware. There are some members on here that are very good in buying and selling collections but they know what they are doing and do not need e-bay to sell as they have a good net work and reputation.

 

[Tnmountains]

(Daltons cannot be made with antler).
well how did the indian make them then?
thay did not have Copper bobber

They used a flint knapping spall with the cortex on that would grab the stone much like antler. I have one from a site. A friend has several whole knapping kits but from much later time periods. Small round spalls used until they were useless. I can post a picture of one if needed.

 

[natchitoches]

please do

 

[uzd]

I realize this is an old thread albeit a good one. Here is an example of residual copper in a point.

 

[EricTheCat]

I realize this is an old thread albeit a good one. Here is an example of residual copper in a point.

Thanks for sharing that. It looks strikingly similar to a couple points in the small collection I purchased a while back (my only "artifact" purchase). Sad there is so much greed. Now if only I can find something real before the snow cover closes the season.

Edited to add pics and to mention, even the placement is similar.

 

[Jon Stewart]

GB mentioned about points breaking on impact when hunting. I knapped a point out of Flintridge material and killed a deer with it. The point broke at the notches . I was fortunate enough that the sinew held the rest of the point on to the arrow shaft. I have a clovis point that has a small crushed on the tip. How did it break? Maybe it was a miss and the stone it hit broke it. Only the archer will know I would guess.

I do know that I have a couple of points out there that I made that in 100 years or so will be artifacts if found. lol.

eric the cat: was that bottom point purchased as an artifact?

 

[EricTheCat]

eric the cat: was that bottom point purchased as an artifact?

Yes sir. Part of a set that was labeled "Archaic points, Tennessee", pics in this thread: http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/n...0-recent-purchase-i-couldn-t-help-myself.html

 

[uzd]

I'm not knowledgeable enough to pos. id this point. A geologist friend noticed the carbon footprint which led to finding the residue from the punch. He said there was a tool/punch used of antler and copper but didn't know what time frame.
I don't believe this is a modern point.

I hunt the ranch left to me for metal,lithic and botanical artifacts. It has at least two middens and as many burial sites. There was a school/hall built in the late 1800's and points were rural youths gold. The kids hunted the place at every opportunity destroying or modifying many of the stone/bone tools. They would practice their knapping or grind\peck initials in the stone. A community dump located on a limestone bed at one time housed untold wealth in bottles/glassware. Boys w/slingshots unknowingly will shoot 100.00 marbles at high dollar glass until both are reduced to shards. Rural youth had to entertain themselves. If this wasn't their fav pastime pecking Sam hearts Sue in a pristine adze was.