closed therad, thanks a lot garorboy.

[hmmm]

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/north-american-artifacts/292467-copper-body-armor.html
i would like to point out , when i found the copper, the site was crown land and had a mid 19th century homestead on it .
i believe the copper is a older piece and is a example of overlapping history.
we found other copper stuff, thimbles, buttons, metal pots and even two but plates from muskets, but all these where less then 10 inches deep, the copper was over twice as deep.

I should point out, i am not saying i found a "copper shield " like the ones i posted , but a piece of copper, that was formed into a sheet molded to fit the chest and possible woven into a cedar armor vest.

i guess this is my last post for the closed thread "copper body armor"
i don't know why it was closed.
I quote surf "In battle the men wore red cedar armor and helmets".

As for the nationality as to who made it, the bark suggests indian and
the local native copper in the area makes it very plausible.

there is one thing about finding something like what i have found, if you do not look for any history, you will never find it.
i do remember visiting a archeological dig on the neighboring island and they had a bucket for the copper pieces they found.

As for badge guy, he was found a different island that has no homestead , the island is just to small. surf, i am curious how you met badge guy , only less then half a dozen people know his where abouts. If the cops have had a dig done on him, then there may be others who have met badge guy.. i do like your story about the clam digger but.

 

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[GatorBoy]

Nice title. You may need to re- read your replies as who to thank sir. I provided very solid information that you quickly followed up with laughing. I guess you're not laughing anymore.

 

[GatorBoy]

The matting on the back of your piece of copper is called Hessian matting. It's quite possibly part of an Indian built ship for the white man's use.. between the years of 1790-1815. " Ships Fastenings from Sewnboat to Steamship" Authur Mike McCarty... page 109

 

[surf]

surf, i am curious how you met badge guy , only less then half a dozen people know his where abouts.

Hey hmmm,

You introduced me, and some hundreds of others in the Copper thread. I don't know his whereabouts. I did ask about those badges, though. I could not see the detail that you had highlighted at all.

I still don't think body armor. The warriors, when not warring, pretty much walked around naked, from what I was reading. Big plate copper body armor would really be a movement restrictor, if in a solid form, like the piece you showed. That's just my opinion. Small plates woven in would make more sense to me. Remember this: http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/158418-armour-plating.html?

"The full outfit of a north coast warrior: a round wooden helmet, a bentwood visor, and a painted leather tunic over a breastplate made of interlocking wooden slats. This type of armour had its origins in the bronze age of China and Japan. Its use in the New World was limited to the west coast, but elements of the outfit, particularly wooden slat breastplates, spread as far south as California." Civilization.ca - Haida - Haida villages - Warfare The plates of the Tlingit armour look very similar to those of Samurai...

Have a look >>> Russian Plastic Tlingit Warrior Models. And more! | Northwest Coast Archaeology

The matting on the back of your piece of copper is called Hessian matting. I/QUOTE]

Hey GB,

I think those are white man words that don't apply to woven cedar bark basketry.I've seen some cedar bark basketry, and never thought "matting."

Kwakiutl Cedar Bark Basket ca. 1900 9 3/4" W. 6 3/4" H. Good Condition

Hey hmmm,

Was there any evidence of the cedar bark being fastened through the holes in the copper? At this point, I've got way more questions than answers...

http://know-art.livejournal.com/3660.ht

 

[releventchair]

Looked in artifact forum and copper armor thread was open.
It seems previously worked copper, sorry i don,t see armor there,size an issue. Its big! but see what you will. You have seen some old stuff there though.
Other posters trying to help,not just say what you want to hear. take it or leave it but each gave you time and possible thought.
Thanks for sharing your finds and pics. Multiple items involving craftsmanship from different cultures .and of course some mystery (badge man and items origins) ) for good measure. Good luck.

 

[hmmm]

Hey hmmm,

You introduced me, and some hundreds of others in the Copper thread. I don't know his whereabouts. I did ask about those badges, though. I could not see the detail that you had highlighted at all.

I still don't think body armor. The warriors, when not warring, pretty much walked around naked, from what I was reading. Big plate copper body armor would really be a movement restrictor, if in a solid form, like the piece you showed. That's just my opinion. Small plates woven in would make more sense to me. Remember this: http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/158418-armour-plating.html?

Very cool, but his mask looks like metal not wood.
I looked into breast plates for armor through out history and found most where large, it makes sence , the chest does now move and a solid peice would fit and work very well.
here is a example of two brest plates.
View attachment 726398 this next one is very similar, even has the same holes.
View attachment 726401

 

[hmmm]

Gator dude is very set in his ways and is "researching in exactly that type of environment "
these are his posts from the closed topic.

What you have there looks like a piece of copper sheathing used to cover the bottom of wooden ships

The woven "bark" is most likely a burlap type material coated with tar.

but come on... he found parts of an old ship on the edge of a body of water... the rest to me is just fanciful thinking.

the sheathing is unworked because it came off of a ship and was washed ashore.

In many cases a layer of tar was added to the Hull then covered with matting..be it ceader or not...before the copper was nailed to the bottom. This would seal the nail holes and protect the wood from water damage.

Remember that was attached to wood that was floating at the time.

I'm from the "treasure coast" in Florida... I know what I'm saying. Make it whatever you want. It's probably off limits Partly because it's a shipwreck site.
Through years of living..artifacting..and researching in exactly that type of environment I've learned not to "put the cart before the horse" so to speak.

You would do very little laughing If you actually did some shipwreck research. You obviously have little understanding.

just can't figure why he was not happy to have found some really cool shipwreck items.

Hello it's me mister obvious again....... why has nobody noticed the nail holes

He has provided zero evidence that his piece is what he claims. If cedar was readily available to the local ship builders that is exactly what would have been used as the underlayment in the sheathing process.

Correct... all of the other artifacts also point to the 18 hundreds.

I'm going to bow out of this discussion for now. The mistery is gone for me. This belongs in the shipwreck forum. I can pick it up there if he really wants to get to the truth.

Quite the imagination. So now.. it came from a shipwreck...

The only reason that Matting Is stuck to the copper Is because there was a layer of tar between the two..

I hope nobody thinks I'm just trying to dash hopes.. his finds are exceptional.... but like I said many many posts ago.. just not what he thought.... IMO. also about the matting being stuck to the copper I explained that more than once. Like anyone else I'm human and can be wrong... however... my experience tells me..not this time.

I'm sorry... ( moderator)
this ended the topic.
but wait , he could not leave it be.
I quote
"The matting on the back of your piece of copper is called Hessian matting. It's quite possibly part of an Indian built ship for the white man's use.. between the years of 1790-1815. " Ships Fastenings from Sewnboat to Steamship" Authur Mike McCarty... page 109"

I agree with "Relivantchair" "Other posters trying to help,not just say what you want to hear. " I appreciate what others have to say, but gatordude is to one sided , personally hope he is done with this thread.
Here is a interesting note, the copper is so old, it breaks, not bends.
surf, i have lots of other pictures , closeups, macros, and ones showing it is not a flat piece, but shaped perfectly to fit the chest.
ill find them and post them.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Gator is done posting for awhile. He is on timeout.....

 

[hmmm]

surf , Here is a picture of a hole from the side of the copper piece.


I forgot to mention The breast plate i posted earlier is a roman breast plate.