Rutz Clovis

[RutzClovis]

Hello all!

I've been asked to post a thread regarding an item in my possession called the Rutz Clovis, my family is in the process of deciding what to do with the piece and we're looking for information since we've basically not a clue where to start besides some old letters from Gramly, among others. I'd also like to know what pictures to take, what notes to gather, whatever you would be interested I'm going to try to answer and hopefully in the process have the thing well documented as well (personally) as learn more about the subjects of knapping, arrowheads, and the Clovis points in particular.

 

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[digordie]

Where was it found at?

 

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[GatorBoy]

I do not know I think they are showing it better lit and reversed. That one section does look different though.

<img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=816160"/>

auction house pic below

<img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=816164"/>

That's alot different
Way back in the beginning of this thread I mentioned the fact that I had suspicions of this piece being a cast..or reproduction ... my post was removed.
We just saw first hand what happened to NCfieldhunter over some bannerstones and Gorgets.
Imagine the amount of temptation and motive that would go with this piece when it was sent out of state for Authentication like the poster explained.(on another thread) he also let at least one other individual "borrow " it to make a cast and mentions that on this thread.
He also talked about not getting return correspondence when requested after the original exchange.
He did however get at least one of the many casts of the Rutz and a poster.
... this has nothing to do with authenticity.. but...
Look at the photo above ..can you imagine laying that valuable of a piece of obsidian up against the corner of a tile shower floor and wall.

 

[GatorBoy]

I would like seeing Dr. Gramlys letter or assessment. Be interesting to see the date and read the terminology .

Yes it would.

 

[NC field hunter]

That's alot different
Way back in the beginning of this thread I mentioned the fact that I had suspicions of this piece being a cast..or reproduction ... my post was removed.
We just saw first hand what happened to NCfieldhunter over some bannerstones and Gorgets.
Imagine the amount of temptation and motive that would go with this piece when it was sent out of state for Authentication like the poster explained.(on another thread) he also let at least one other individual "borrow " it to make a cast and mentions that on this thread.
He also talked about not getting return correspondence when requested after the original exchange.
He did however get at least one of the many casts of the Rutz and a poster.
... this has nothing to do with authenticity.. but...
Look at the photo above ..can you imagine laying that valuable of a piece of obsidian up against the corner of a tile shower floor and wall.

Exactly Gator. Lots of people have sent me PM talking about my friend letting someone borrow his banners. If you have outstanding stuff, some one will want a repro. A museum or school, some collectors. Most honest people never think about criminal intentions. Example, I never remove the keys from my ignition, so I can't lock it. I'm not a thief, so I don't think about the fact that thief's are out there. I'm glad to know that my friend isn't the only person nice enough to lend out artifacts. I hate what happened to us. I hope it didn't happen to the rutz Clovis.

 

[rock]

I dont think it did happen like that to the Clovis. I think he had one made so he could see it when ever he wanted to at home. I would guess the real one was probably locked up for safe keeping. Myself though if I ever found something that nice would never let it leave my side for even a cast. I would just lock it away.

 

[digordie]

Where was it found at?

My bad..guess it helps to read the whole thread. Those are some amazing finds in washington state.

 

[unclemac]

My bad..guess it helps to read the whole thread. Those are some amazing finds in washington state.

makes you wonder what is off the coast under water.

 

[Tnmountains]

Originally Posted by Tnmountains
Thanks for coming over and sharing. Maybe some members will have some advice. Is this the casting of it?

Large Clovis Point From Washington State



That's exactly the one. We have a cast as well that they gave us for letting them borrow the point and they gave us a poster as well. Everyone is right, it's been a long time, I suppose we'll have to get it... reauthenticated? I'm not sure what the process for that would be. It's been in my family for years, as far as I know it was given to us by Les who found the thing (my father collected small arrowheads but nothing this huge), there was the thing in Nat Geo (I think I have the article in the binder with everything else), Bostrom had it for the poster and the cast, it was in Buffalo with Gramly for a bit. I can look through the binder again and talk to my mother about the specifics, luckily she has everything from letters to packing slips. I'd be a fool to think it wouldn't be questioned, there's too many fakers out there for anyone to just accept me for my word and that's why I want to take photo requests. How big can the images be for this site? The pictures I've posted are a lot smaller than the originals but they were too big to post in the forum. I do have a Google+ page for the arrowhead with the higher resolution pictures on it though.

( SEE THE GOOGLE PICS HE SET UP FOR US HE DID HAVE A CAST MADE BUT OBVIOUSLY HAS THE ORIGINAL AS WELL )

 

[rock]

It sure is pretty

 

[pickaway]

It sure is pretty

Uh sure is purrtea

 

[IllinoisDug]

aaannnnddd it's for sale.Rutz Clovis Point. : Lot 57

 

[unclemac]

this should be fun....

 

[coteau]

this should be fun....

My max bid will be 72k. Yeah right I forgot I work for a living

 

[Twitch]

Should be interesting to watch. It's really a once in a generation artifact.

 

[bristowboy]

I know a guy who keeps a $300,000 bannerstone under his pillow at night with 2 handguns with it. Some people do keep their valuables close by.

I dont think it did happen like that to the Clovis. I think he had one made so he could see it when ever he wanted to at home. I would guess the real one was probably locked up for safe keeping. Myself though if I ever found something that nice would never let it leave my side for even a cast. I would just lock it away.

 

[rock]

No bids yet?

 

[NC field hunter]

I know a guy who keeps a $300,000 bannerstone under his pillow at night with 2 handguns with it. Some people do keep their valuables close by.

That's nutz! Don't tell him I said that. Lol! I made a rather sensible investment..... A safe! A gun safe isn't going anyplace.

 

[GaRebel1861]

I know a guy who keeps a $300,000 bannerstone under his pillow at night with 2 handguns with it. Some people do keep their valuables close by.

$300,000 bannerstone? I really would like to see that! Got any pictures?

 

[bristowboy]

Well, maybe not $300k BUT he did get offered $200,000 and said NOPE. So I figure it's a $300k bannerstone to the right buyer. I have shown it on here before. One of two hook bannerstones found by Rick Brumfield.

 

[joshuaream]

I saw the point last weekend at the Paleoamerican Oddessy conference in Santa Fe. It is a well documented, spectacular and more importantly an authentic relic. I think it will go for $800k+.