Artifacts Made to Deceive

[quito]

Not meaning to knock any flint knappers out there, I know that there are very many with integrity, that do mark their creations.

But in the interest of learning, lets see some pieces that you members may have purchased that were obviously made to deceive, or that are just obvious fakes.

here's the one I got my lesson on, and it did come with a coa. Another reason to get two sometimes. Anyone can make a mistake or overlook something.

 

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[Charl]

I was 11 years old when I got these in 1958. Ad in the back of Popular Science or Popular Mechanics. Sold as real for 10 bucks each. That's a lot of allowance money in 1958. Even remember the Folsom was from Webster Parish, La. Lol. Maybe the Folsom was made by this guy, that would be at least cool...

Marvin McCormick

 

[quito]

Well, lol, what's not real about them? They look real to me. Were they made by an actual NA too?

 

[BosnMate]

I'd be fooled, those look good to me.

 

[painterx7]

Yeah they look real !!

 

[eastTNJoe]

I was 11 years old when I got these in 1958. Ad in the back of Popular Science or Popular Mechanics. Sold as real for 10 bucks each. That's a lot of allowance money in 1958. Even remember the Folsom was from Webster Parish, La. Lol. Maybe the Folsom was made by this guy, that would be at least cool...

Marvin McCormick

I really enjoyed the article in the link. It was informative on many levels....Thanks for sharing!

 

[rock]

I got one this yr, I thought it was kinda cool looking till I saw the mark on it. Didnt notice it till I got home. It was in a mix of other stuff. Well I see they are still having problems with pics.
Anyway its a stone polished triangle.

 

[monsterrack]

These are all fakes everyone should remember these from can you spot the fake thread. Fakes made in the 50s and 60s are the hardest to tell if the patina is done right. The ones made today if they use metal to flake it makes a different flake pattern than antler or stone does. I'll say it again anyone can be fooled by a good faker.

 

[quito]

These are all fakes everyone should remember these from can you spot the fake thread. Fakes made in the 50s and 60s are the hardest to tell if the patina is done right. The ones made today if they use metal to flake it makes a different flake pattern than antler or stone does. I'll say it again anyone can be fooled by a good faker.

Metal flaking tools will also leave metal behind that is easy to detect with magnification. I'm not sure what kind of fake patina you are talking about. But most applied fake patina will come off with acetone, real stuff won't.

 

[monsterrack]

Metal flaking tools will also leave metal behind that is easy to detect with magnification. I'm not sure what kind of fake patina you are talking about. But most applied fake patina will come off with acetone, real stuff won't.

With a buffing wheel that has had a type of silicon placed on it will remove all signs of metal and also give it a creek feel and there are some potassium chemicals that will leave a patina that will not come of with anything. I wont say just which one of the chemicals it is, because it is a mixture or how to use it, so has not to help anyone to fake artifacts. The fakers of today study chemicals that are natural and use stuff to speed up what 1000 of years will do for a patina. The days of wax, stains, and other types are for fakers that just are getting started, a real faker is a chemist also.

 

[Get-the-point]

Great examples everyone. The determining factors I use are, mineralization, patination, hinge debris and staining and proper make. All of these are evident on a authentic piece. At mineralization points some staining should occur as well. The things I look for on a reproduction or a fake is improper flaking per type, lack of mineralization, lack of hinge debris, lack of hinge staining, fresh hinge ledges, fresh powder crushings(which is very difficult to remove) and metal fragments or copper streaks. Improper sanding and striation marks verse actual grinding and proper striation marks. These are the tools I use. That Obsidian piece blown up you will see fresh powder crushing at the base. You cannot see with the pictures the blade to well but the base if you look at it you will see it.


That folsom could very well be a McCormick. I wonder if his pieces will raise in value. I bet the museums and some notable collectors would hope so. He was absolutely the best when it came to reproducing Folsoms.

 

[eastTNJoe]

Great examples everyone. The determining factors I use are, mineralization, patination, hinge debris and staining and proper make. All of these are evident on a authentic piece. At mineralization points some staining should occur as well. The things I look for on a reproduction or a fake is improper flaking per type, lack of mineralization, lack of hinge debris, lack of hinge staining, fresh hinge ledges, fresh powder crushings(which is very difficult to remove) and metal fragments or copper streaks. Improper sanding and striation marks verse actual grinding and proper striation marks. These are the tools I use. That Obsidian piece blown up you will see fresh powder crushing at the base. You cannot see with the pictures the blade to well but the base if you look at it you will see it.


That folsom could very well be a McCormick. I wonder if his pieces will raise in value. I bet the museums and some notable collectors would hope so. He was absolutely the best when it came to reproducing Folsoms.

It is amazing that he was so ingenious to create income by being a real artist...and to think his work may have value yet is really interesting. As tempting as buying points is, in particular, those that are not regional to your area, this thread makes me think that I should stick to the ones I pull out of the mud and be happy with what I get, even if it isn't "valued" highly by others. I recently had someone ask to trade points and I found that I didn't want to give any up....I initially thought it was greed, but I realized it had little to do with the artifact and everything to do with the memories attached to finding it...the day, the weather, the circumstances, who was with me...etc...that kept me wanting to hold on to the rock...it is the hunt that is so special.

 

[painterx7]

I like the way you put that east joe I understand all you just said great word last two post !!!!

 

[Charl]

Great examples everyone. The determining factors I use are, mineralization, patination, hinge debris and staining and proper make. All of these are evident on a authentic piece. At mineralization points some staining should occur as well. The things I look for on a reproduction or a fake is improper flaking per type, lack of mineralization, lack of hinge debris, lack of hinge staining, fresh hinge ledges, fresh powder crushings(which is very difficult to remove) and metal fragments or copper streaks. Improper sanding and striation marks verse actual grinding and proper striation marks. These are the tools I use. That Obsidian piece blown up you will see fresh powder crushing at the base. You cannot see with the pictures the blade to well but the base if you look at it you will see it.


That folsom could very well be a McCormick. I wonder if his pieces will raise in value. I bet the museums and some notable collectors would hope so. He was absolutely the best when it came to reproducing Folsoms.

Yeah, I kinda suspect it is one of his. Isn't the material on it Alabaites? I think that was his fav material for his Folsoms. I think they have gone up in value. I know I'd want more then $10 for it now, lol. But my wife won't let me sell them she likes them. Lol. Actually, glad I kept them, they are at least 56+ year old antiques!!

 

[Edmundruffin]

and it did come with a coa.
View attachment 919639

COA's are worthless. I have a friend in north Alabama that has a wall of COA,s and he knapped all the points. We call it the wall of shame. Those authenticators are in the business for one thing, your money. IMHO

 

[quito]

COA's are worthless. I have a friend in north Alabama that has a wall of COA,s and he knapped all the points. We call it the wall of shame. Those authenticators are in the business for one thing, your money. IMHO

Hmm, well that's a strong opinion. Do you mean "those" as in those on the wall of shame, or as in all authenticators?

I know of two who will issue kill letters free of charge.

 

[monsterrack]

Not everyone is a crook or out to fraud someone, but it's like the high crime rate, because of that you should always be aware of your surroundings and know who you deal with. Like the old saying (one bad apple can spoil the bunch).

 

[Get-the-point]

Yeah, I kinda suspect it is one of his. Isn't the material on it Alabaites? I think that was his fav material for his Folsoms. I think they have gone up in value. I know I'd want more then $10 for it now, lol. But my wife won't let me sell them she likes them. Lol. Actually, glad I kept them, they are at least 56+ year old antiques!!

That folsom definately looks like Alibates and from what i've read about him, his favorite materials were Alibates and knife river flint.

 

[joshuaream]

Those are both classic McCormick points, and back in 1958 he was one of only a few people making fluted points. I'd keep those proudly as it's a very cool story.

I was 11 years old when I got these in 1958. Ad in the back of Popular Science or Popular Mechanics. Sold as real for 10 bucks each. That's a lot of allowance money in 1958. Even remember the Folsom was from Webster Parish, La. Lol. Maybe the Folsom was made by this guy, that would be at least cool...

Marvin McCormick

 

[rock]

It is amazing that he was so ingenious to create income by being a real artist...and to think his work may have value yet is really interesting. As tempting as buying points is, in particular, those that are not regional to your area, this thread makes me think that I should stick to the ones I pull out of the mud and be happy with what I get, even if it isn't "valued" highly by others. I recently had someone ask to trade points and I found that I didn't want to give any up....I initially thought it was greed, but I realized it had little to do with the artifact and everything to do with the memories attached to finding it...the day, the weather, the circumstances, who was with me...etc...that kept me wanting to hold on to the rock...it is the hunt that is so special.

Very true.