Are these scrapers?

[rocke]

Below is a photograph of two different flint objects--supposedly made by the Cherokee within the Southeastern states they occupied.

Are they scrapers or something else? Any ideas about the time period they were made? Any ideas about their value?

Thanks

 

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[quito]

Knives, imho.

 

[Rege-PA]

Interesting items, the round one would be classified as a "Sun Disc", they are Mississippian in origin and certainly in the Cherokee sphere of influence but earlier. Highly sought after, consequentially most are fake and unless you know the pedigree or are willing to submit it to a reputable authenticator you should be cautious. The other looks like a form of corner tang knife which is more westward into Texas, both should be submitted for authenticity. Good luck!

 

[quito]

Interesting items, the round one would be classified as a "Sun Disc", they are Mississippian in origin and certainly in the Cherokee sphere of influence but earlier. Highly sought after, consequentially most are fake and unless you know the pedigree or are willing to submit it to a reputable authenticator you should be cautious. The other looks like a form of corner tang knife which is more westward into Texas, both should be submitted for authenticity. Good luck!

I concur, but they look highly suspect to me too though. I would have them authenticated and maybe appraised if legit before you tried to peddle them.

 

[monsterrack]

Rocke these guys are giving you some good straight up advice, if I were you I would go with it. You could be sitting on a hunk of money or if you sell them and they are fake you could be sitting on a hunk of trouble and get a bad rep.

 

[jamey]

those are sweet.

 

[rocke]

Thanks for the info and also your perspective about their authenticity. They are both in beautiful condition and would no doubt be suspect. I do know they both came from a collection that was purchased by a family member in Cherokee, NC in the late 1920's so unless they were faked at that time, they are authentic. However, based on comments above, anyone interested in purchasing them would no doubt demand a Certificate of Authenticity.

I did wonder if the round one was a "sun disc". I had seen some similar images. Is it ceremonial or utility?

Thanks for the call on the corner-tang knife. The corner tang refers more to the presence of the individual tang rather than dual tangs? It seemed that most shapes related to the corner tang were more projectile points rather than this elliptical form. I would never had know without your identification--thanks.

 

[rock]

Well its not the clearest pic and the retails are probably wrong but if it is a good piece then here you go. You should be able to enlarge it if you click on the photo.

 

[rocke]

Well its not the clearest pic and the retails are probably wrong but if it is a good piece then here you go. You should be able to enlarge it if you click on the photo.

Thanks for the image! So it is a ceremonial piece.

What book, please?

The critical note is "provenance". This was inherited so I have no provenance--the family member who owned it died in 1943.

 

[cowboy7450]

very cool finds. I would listen to them and have them looked at by someone. Way to go thanks for shareing

 

[rock]

Here you go. You might be able to pick up a used one at amazon for cheap.

 

[rocke]

Here you go. You might be able to pick up a used one at amazon for cheap.

Thanks. I actually have the Overstreet's Indian Projectile Point Guide, 1989 but I could not find a sun disc in it.

 

[Red Earth]

Hey there rocke

You sure seem to come across some strange items. Mind if I ask if you deal or are thinking about dealing? Do you hunt?

 

[rocke]

Hey there rocke

You sure seem to come across some strange items. Mind if I ask if you deal or are thinking about dealing? Do you hunt?

I am not a dealer and I'm not sure if I want to sell any of these artifacts. Unlike most of the folks on this forum whom I really admire and envy because they are out there experiencing the thrill of the hunt, the artifacts I have were given to me from a collection purchased by my grandfather in Cherokee, NC. in the 1920's. He died in 1943. In my younger days I use to hunt for sharks teeth and other fossils in phosphate mines around Mulberry, FL., but have never hunted artifacts.

So, now my problem is there is no provenance on anything and I know very little about all of this. I had assumed that the artifacts would all be genuine because of when they were bought but now the forum has identified people who were producing reproductions back then. Already several of the pieces shown in the forum were questioned as to their authenticity because of their fine quality or because of peculiarities. That's why I'm now interested in looking at authenticators. So now what started out as simple research has gotten very complex.

 

[rock]

Well just take some to a artifact show and see what the people there say. In hand inspection is much better than a screen and a pic of the item. They might use a loop or even a microscope to determine them as to if they are real or not. That is the only real way if you know what to look for. Make sure you give us a update when you find out, rock