Patina Patina Patina

[monsterrack]

I hear folks talking about patina on artifact and when they seem to have a stain from something then they are real in some folks eyes but when there is no patina then RED flags go a flying. Patina comes from the matrix that is around a artifact, so if found in the same field and creek then they should have the same patina right, no that is wrong. In this great country we have all types of soils and water ways and everyone makes a different patina. What you find on one point in one field may not be the same across the road and what you may find in a creek should have the same patina every time right, wrong again. This photo shows my point to this thread, all of these artifacts where found in the same creek, in the same water, but look at the difference in the patina, some are heavy and some show hardly none at all. All the artifacts shown in the photo was found within 1/4mi of each other

Don't let patina stain be your ruling judge on a artifact, learn what the chipping should look like for that style and stone type for that part of the country. So many pass judgment on artifacts because the patina is not what it looks like around their area or what they have seen from other artifacts. Like the artifacts I have shown they don't always have patina on them.

 

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[ncnurseryman]

Always good info from you guys. Its like going to school without the cost. And dang you guys find the killer stuff down there.

 

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[NCPeaches]

Great post and very informative monsterrack! and here's my 2 cents on my experiences lol...all my finds are in a creek. Some have patina some don't and the largest part of mine are shards. The shards either have black or rust stains depending on where they've been hanging out but the ones that have been stuck in the sand areas of the banks have no stains at all. I don't have many points but the one that was stained the most was a small savannah river made of rhyolite. I like to clean the creek stains off but it won't wash off and I found something mild that does great and doesn't harm the artifact and it's called Rust Out and is in the laundry section of the store. I mix a very mild solution and put them in it for only a few minutes, it makes me nervous so usually I check it until most the stain is off and I rinse it real well. I like to clean them up so I can see the colors on both the shards and stone stuff. Now if I hunted fields I don't think I would need to use the Rust Out.

monsterrack: what is that long artifact on the right side of your pic? I think I have a tip of one of those I found it last year and have been watching for the rest of it.

 

[GatorBoy]

You do know you've removed minerals by doing that correct?
That "stain" is for all intents and purposes it's age.
It took thousands of years to do that on that Savannah river point.

 

[GatorBoy]

Here are two pieces from the same small area....same material... Black is patina from saltwater... white is from dry land.

 

[GatorBoy]

Since that agatized coral is a fossil the same ..either black blue or both patina is seen on other fossils found in saltwater here.











Happy Hunting

 

[rock]

In my area the ones I find in the red clay will have mineral deposits on them that look like a iron ore. The ones in the creek are tougher to see and some don't show hardly any if they are found in the water. Our creeks here are very clear when we don't get rain so not much patina at all as far as staining. If the water is a stained color it will affect the artifacts patina. Most of the quartz types will show tiny black dots. I use a 40x loupe to see the patina. The black flint is the toughest to see any trace.

 

[GatorBoy]

Just because I was so interested to see if the flake patterns lined up on the two pieces I soaked the base section of that point above... it was the first thing I've ever put in mineral oil this is what the material looks like underneath

 

[monsterrack]

Great post and very informative monsterrack! and here's my 2 cents on my experiences lol...all my finds are in a creek. Some have patina some don't and the largest part of mine are shards. The shards either have black or rust stains depending on where they've been hanging out but the ones that have been stuck in the sand areas of the banks have no stains at all. I don't have many points but the one that was stained the most was a small savannah river made of rhyolite. I like to clean the creek stains off but it won't wash off and I found something mild that does great and doesn't harm the artifact and it's called Rust Out and is in the laundry section of the store. I mix a very mild solution and put them in it for only a few minutes, it makes me nervous so usually I check it until most the stain is off and I rinse it real well. I like to clean them up so I can see the colors on both the shards and stone stuff. Now if I hunted fields I don't think I would need to use the Rust Out.

monsterrack: what is that long artifact on the right side of your pic? I think I have a tip of one of those I found it last year and have been watching for the rest of it.

View attachment 1082642

It looks like a Bradley Spike but not sure on that. Like I said Points in South Ms. are hard to type due to the fact that they are so far south and out of the area that the books say they are found in. Keep looking you will find more points, one day your creek is going to blow you away with what you find

 

[scepter1]

As an experiment, i was able to take a knife and scrap heavy white patina off an agate flake I found on the beach (saltwater). Hard to spot among clam shells!

 

[rock]

If you went by patina alone for age this would be the oldest piece in my collection. Its a hunk of black flint which is has heavy patina and mineral spots on it as you can see with the naked eye (rust looking spots) are the mineral deposits and its a scraper. Secondary flaking on 2 edges not much other work. Personal find

 

[reuellis]

the flint that i find (kanawha black) will weather to a chaulky white. i'm assuming this is also seen in the piece shown by rock. whenever i find a piece that is all black i usually pick it, reason being most natural breaks will not remove all of the weathered cortex, but usually just a hunk that exposes the black. some pieces that are similar in style (i think...) that show differences in color of kanawha flint and some that have some cortex remaining that is different in color:

 

[GatorBoy]

The ones that are a little different look like they may have started out tan and are patinaed very black.. Maybe not but it just reminds me of what salt water does here

 

[reuellis]

the core is black, cortex weathers to a wide range of colors and then chaulky white. here are a couple natural chunks i've picked up over the years. i really like finding them with the iron. all were found in putnam county in the teays valley. amazing how far water can move big hunks!

 

[Tnmountains]

I remember Tnmountains saying something about that

They were calcified from the rock shelters and very old artifacts. You could not even recognize them. In my opinion he did a preservation even though he used acid. Funny things is after the bath they still held a natural patina he just knocked of the calsification. Horn stone does not hold a patina well either. I think it is the porosity of the material and surrounding minerals like Monster said.Under high magnification the artifacts here seem to be peppered or bombarded with little dots like what sprays off from a stick welder. Good thread!

 

[tncreeker]

This is just the thread I needed!! I found this the other day on a lake shore. I was wondering if this is a Patina,,or just the natural way the stone looks. The pictures show it dry and also wet. Does patina hint at the age of an artifact? Thank You for any answers you may have.

 

[GatorBoy]

They were calcified from the rock shelters and very old artifacts. You could not even recognize them. In my opinion he did a preservation even though he used acid. Funny things is after the bath they still held a natural patina he just knocked of the calsification. Horn stone does not hold a patina well either. I think it is the porosity of the material and surrounding minerals like Monster said.Under high magnification the artifacts here seem to be peppered or bombarded with little dots like what sprays off from a stick welder. Good thread!

Thanks for the details there

 

[GatorBoy]

This is just the thread I needed!! I found this the other day on a lake shore. I was wondering if this is a Patina,,or just the natural way the stone looks. The pictures show it dry and also wet. Does patina hint at the age of an artifact? Thank You for any answers you may have.<img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1087740"/><img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1087742"/><img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1087743"/><img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1087744"/>

That's a nice artifact there.... some nice patina on it also.
It can definitely hint at the items age.. A lot of factors need to be taken into account and vary from region down to its specific location but when you know an area you can make some general judgments for sure.. Your piece reminds me of this one

 

[tncreeker]

I would rather find cool tools than a point any day, This one is really sharp, the point on the tip is sharp as a needle, yet the ridges on the top and bottom are much smoother/worn. I am guessing its been in the same place for a long time. The sand wearing away the top and bottom, yet leaving the sides alone. Patina,,,I know patina in relation to primitive treenware, but I just dont understand the rock stuff yet. Thank you for the reply.