The Greedy COA people.

[Igyjastabay]

Ever noticed the little boys who claim they can authenticate ancient stone never appear on forums.. Its like: Ok I am going to start a business with artifacts. I am going to sell them and authenticate them, but noooo, I will not stoop so low to make a comment on an artifact board. Lots of stupid people out there that give them business (political comment rule violation) Its disgusting to an intelligent man.

 

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[Tnmountains]

Agree Charl. There is a place for everything.

 

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[joshuaream]

My views:

The Good:
I've used COAs to sell before on eBay. Like it or not, people trust the opinion of someone they have heard of more than someone they don't know. A name brand COA will help you sell a $200 arrowhead for about $200. I don't think they add much additional value, but they help things sell (which is a value if you want to move rocks.) On high end stuff, or in person transactions, COAs don't do much anymore.

If you send in something that you've had for years, or bought from a random source, you can get a pretty decent opinion on it from any of the major COAers. (They'd have no reason to paper something bad, or kill something good.)

The Bad:
If you need a COA to convince you a point is authentic before you buy it, you'll probably end up with a beautiful collection of modern art.

The Ugly:
If the seller has hundreds of pieces papered by the same COAer, be cautious. Some COAers seem to take the idea that "the customer is always right" when the customer regularly submits hundreds of pieces for COAs. I personally know of a birdstone that one of the big names rejected when a friend sent it in. He got his money back from the seller. I saw the same piece with a paper from the same COAer a couple of years later at a regularly scheduled auction.

I've seen a lot of G-10 pieces with papers sold by the guy who probably carpooled to the show with the COAer. Buyer beware when the COAer profits from a good call beyond his $25 fee. The Walmart example is the documented example, but there are hundreds of other pieces with COAs that make you scratch your head until you hear some of history about where it came from.

 

[NC field hunter]

What is is - "Certificate of Authenticity."

What do they do - They prey on people to let them think they are buying points that are real.



The tide is turning on COAs now, due to all the bad apples out there.

I know some guys who spend BIG bucks on high-end points, and they have told me "I won't even look at a point if it has a COA." "If it were real - it wouldn't need a piece of paper trying to convince me it was."

There are some clever con artists who are churning out fake COAs with Perinos name and a couple other well-known authenticators names on them. Fake points - and fake COAs. What a mess.

I saw an old man's collection that he spent quite a bit on. He showed me his points and the COAs he had on them. And every single point was fake. I didn't have the heart to tell him, but the real shock will be to his family when he passes on, as he bought them as an investment and he thinks his family will be "set" when they go to sell them later.

Buy from trusted sources or from people who dig or collect themselves and who you can trust.

Otherwise - buying a point that is "papered" with a COA makes the point itself irrelevant. As long as the paper says it's "real," then it could be carved from concrete or plaster and someone would buy it "because it has a COA on it." It's just some guy's opinion telling you it's real, and that guy needs ZERO credentials at all to be able to do that.

What a terrible investment. Why not invest in land? A good piece of land has real artifacts, or at least the possibility of artifacts. Not to knock the poor fella. I have an aunt that sold her farm so that she could invest in time sharing, with intentions of leaving the time sharing to her grandkids. It's possible that I'm the fool.??

 

[Igyjastabay]

Lol

My views:

The Good:
I've used COAs to sell before on eBay. Like it or not, people trust the opinion of someone they have heard of more than someone they don't know. A name brand COA will help you sell a $200 arrowhead for about $200. I don't think they add much additional value, but they help things sell (which is a value if you want to move rocks.) On high end stuff, or in person transactions, COAs don't do much anymore.

If you send in something that you've had for years, or bought from a random source, you can get a pretty decent opinion on it from any of the major COAers. (They'd have no reason to paper something bad, or kill something good.)

The Bad:
If you need a COA to convince you a point is authentic before you buy it, you'll probably end up with a beautiful collection of modern art.

The Ugly:
If the seller has hundreds of pieces papered by the same COAer, be cautious. Some COAers seem to take the idea that "the customer is always right" when the customer regularly submits hundreds of pieces for COAs. I personally know of a birdstone that one of the big names rejected when a friend sent it in. He got his money back from the seller. I saw the same piece with a paper from the same COAer a couple of years later at a regularly scheduled auction.

I've seen a lot of G-10 pieces with papers sold by the guy who probably carpooled to the show with the COAer. Buyer beware when the COAer profits from a good call beyond his $25 fee. The Walmart example is the documented example, but there are hundreds of other pieces with COAs that make you scratch your head until you hear some of history about where it came from.

Don't think so

 

[Igyjastabay]

I see

 

[Igyjastabay]

Wow

 

[Igyjastabay]

Boy am I glad you came along with all this amazing insight of yours. Since you must be one of the intelligent, can someone send them to you if they are not sure?

I would love to introduce you to a couple I know so you could go off on them "little boys" in person.

My bet is they don't come to places like this is because they don't want to be swamped with people that don't know or are unsure expecting picture authenticating, and they are to busy authenticating for all those stupid folk out there.

Sorry you disagree.

 

[OWK]

Dear Igyjastabay,

You seem hellbent of criticism of those "greedy" COA guys. As you've already stated, YOU sell artifacts for considerable sums of money. I guess we can assume your motive for selling those artifacts is something other than "greed". (Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with the profit motivation.. I just insist on honesty, and I find it disingenuous when someone objects to the profit motive in others, while embracing it in themselves).

That notwithstanding, your criticism of COA's is based on the fact that they "prey" on people less intelligent than yourself. Is it safe to assume you think that you are a better judge of authenticity, than they are? Or that there is perhaps some "objective" arbiter of the authenticity of an object, that is infallible? We both know of course, that no such objective arbiter exists.

In artifacts, as in all things... caveat emptor... let the buyer beware.

And my experience teaches me to be even MORE wary of those claiming pure motives for objecting to the profit motive in others, while embracing it for themselves.

 

[quito]

Sorry you disagree. Ps. There is no way in hell you know someone that can kick my butt. Just sayin

WOW!, not only are you the smartest guy around, you are the toughest too?

Well, most here are smart enough to know what the know it all's Really know, and how tough the tough talking guys Really are.

The only reason this thread is getting the views is because is isn't to often the smartest and toughest guy known comes here and runs his fingers like they were a big mouth.

Glad your posting, and hope you are posting this stuff elsewhere. I hope you get a few million views because Everyone should get to see YOU in action.

 

[Charl]

If I'm an authenticator, I spend a certain number of hours per week doing just that. And it's a source of income. And, in my spare time, I decide to frequent artifact forums, and identify myself as an authenticator. So I can dispense my experience here for free. I also have a good reputation because I am honest as well as knowledgable. So I frequent an artifact forum, where, every now and then(as sure as the sun rises in the east) somebody decides "I think I'll test this guy, see how good he is. See if he catches this real good fake". And, as an honest authenticator striving for accuracy and maintaining a good reputation, there's nothing I like more then being secretly tested by people I don't know, in public.

If I were an honest authenticator with a good reputation, I really want to put myself in such a place. Not only can I do in my spare time what I do when I'm working for a living, but I can experience strangers trying to trip me up. A lot. And if I fall for these tests, and don't pass because, hey, I only got a photo to go by, normally I hold the piece, use my scope, etc., well I guess my reputation takes a hit. All because, as an honest authenticator, I decided hanging out where people would use me was a good idea.

 

[Charl]

There is such a thing as self interest. Don't look now, but we all have it. If I were a cop, it likely would not be in my self interest to, on my days off, visit street gangs and identify myself. "Hey, how's it going, guys? That was some rumble we broke up last night. How you guys feelin?" Why anyone would think it in the self interest of an honest and reputable authenticator to hang out on an artifact forum in the first place baffles me. An authenticator would have to be not thinking straight at all to do that. He's earned a good reputation in a field where many reputations are not so hot. And said authenticator is going to put himself in such a place? Why? Doesn't he value his services? "Hey Joe, not for nothin, but I paid good money for that paper. You authenticating for free now? WTF?" Why? Doesn't he value his reputation? "This is a great fake. 10-1 I can fool this clown. Authenticator my butt." Oh yeah, great place for an honest authenticator to hang, yeah, uh huh.....

An authenticator is every bit as entitled to look out for his/her self interest as anyone else.

Safe to say, in response to the observation that "hey, look, the authenticators don't post here!", the most logical and common sense reply would be: "Well, of course not. So what? What on Earth did you expect??"

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Igy, end the insults and verbal abuse or you will be banned just like lostlake was.

 

[quito]

Wow, almost 2,000 views. Half of those are "lookers" from an evil place. Lol.

Is that an imaginary sheep with you?

 

[joshuaream]

Don't think so Mr. International. Believe it or not some people on this board make fun of the the lady hand dudes. Pictures with awesome artifacts with girly hands.

Igy, I can palm a basketball and have hairy knuckles... If your lady has hands like mine, you may want to get a COA. (Might have slipped a Caitlyn in on you.)

Just kidding man, have a good day. If this is who I think it is, good to see that you are still cantankerous, stubborn, disagreeable as well as mad, bad and dangerous to know.

 

[Bass]

Nice avatar TH !

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Nice avatar TH !

Thanks.

 

[Doubter in MD]

Thanks.

Hey TH, why is your text window so big, even on a one word response? Just curious.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Hey TH, why is your text window so big, even on a one word response? Just curious.

Trying to figure that out, looks normal on my tablet but large on PC?

 

[theviking]

Hey TH, why is your text window so big, even on a one word response? Just curious.

The reason his response, or text window is so big is because of all the info listed below his avitar. The reason this thread has 2000 views is because everyone enjoys watching a slow moving train wreck.. As long as no one gets hurt..

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

The reason his response, or text window is so big is because of all the info listed below his avitar. The reason this thread has 2000 views is because everyone enjoys watching a slow moving train wreck.. As long as no one gets hurt..

Not sure thats it, I removed everything and it is still seems too large... Will leave it removed for awhile and see if time makes a difference.