spanish armor?

[unclemac]

Origin of ?Spanish Armor,? Said to Have Been Found in Texas Desert, Stumps Scientists | Western Digs

not really native American..but close...I hadn't ever heard of this before.

 

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[NCPeaches]

Very interesting and considering the Spaniards were probably the first Caucasians the native Americans saw here in my county I think this is a good section of the forums to put it. Here is a wiki link about Joara and their involvements with the Spaniards https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joara. It would be really neat if they found something as cool as the armor found in Texas.

Thanks for posting that article, it was a good read!

 

[joshuaream]

It seems like the authors of the article are having a hard time reconciling the item as Spanish since it doesn't look Spanish. Military, Explorers, Conquistadors, etc. weren't all pure Spaniards. Carlos the 1st was the Spanish King during the big wave of Conquistadors (when Mexico, Peru, Guatemala, the Caribbean, and Florida came under Spanish control), he was also Charles the V over the Holy Roman Empire that controlled Germany, Austria, Hungary, etc. His son Phillip the 2nd was King of Spain, part of Italy, the Netherlands and England for a while. The Conquistador of Venezuela and Colombian was German, many of the soldiers who conquered Argentina and Chile were Irish. Several of Cortes' bigger group in Mexico were French, Dutch or Hungarian.

As long as soldiers were Catholic and from the Hapsburg family area, I doubt they checked passports on willing bodies who carried their own gear. I could see a foot soldier carrying pieces of armor that his father or grandfather had brought back from another campaign. Or something he bought along the way for better protection.

 

[RGINN]

Well at first I thought, no big mystery cause Spanish armor turns up all over the southwest. Then I read the article. I've seen different pieces of Spanish armor found in the SW US but nothing like that. Only idea I had was no everyday soldier would be stupid enough to wear that get up for long in West Texas. (Could explain bein found with a skeleton) I would speculate it belonged to a higher up who really spent most of his time in the shade, lookin good and ordering others around. There might have been a horse tail plume extending from the hole in the helmet? Too bad they don't have the exact location and a better description of the find. Probably not killed in a fight with Indians, as they would have taken that. Maybe the burial of a Comanche or Kiowa with items he had captured from the Spanish? Let us know if they figure this out.

 

[Red James Cash]

I dont think the scale armor is spanish at all.Scale armor was expensive and expensive to upkeep and repair.it went out of favor during the roman empire for those two reasons.It also had a weakness.Get hit with the grain of the scale,youre ok,get hit against the grain,such as with a knife from underneath the scales as one would thrust a blade to get under the ribcage.Very little protection from that thrust.

 

[gollum]

Yeah. Not too good for an Infantryman or Cavalry (upthrusts from knives, swords, pikes, or spears go right through), but seems fine for someone that stays back from the hand to hand, like an Archer or an Officer (that didn't lead from the front) that only mostly had to worry about arrows and spears falling from above. I am also with RGINN that a horsetail plume likely came out of that hole in the top of the helmet.

I have never seen Spanish Armor like that either. Here is a drawing of Aztec Scale Armor that looks pretty good for this (the gorget anyway).



Mike

 

[Red James Cash]

I have never seen Spanish Armor like that either. Here is a drawing of Aztec Scale Armor that looks pretty good for this (the gorget anyway).

Could be,but i was leaning towards Phoenician.They were here on the east coast.



https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...tones/&usg=AFQjCNHMWDWikfAsbP4uBGPwLLxj0Y_HJg

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...6.html&usg=AFQjCNHOLacqE9heenf-hMynb7I71aAt9w

 

[Mark Todd]

https://pastinthepresent.wordpress....cellent-pseudohistorical-adventure-continues/

 

[Mark Todd]

Sorry but the bat creek stone is full of more holes than Swiss cheese, and Glen Beck is "so" bogus on this one he should be blushing. By the way politically and economically I'm right with him for the most part, so this isn't personal, it's about "fact" and "well known fakes", the bat creek stone that is.

 

[Mark Todd]

Well at first I thought, no big mystery cause Spanish armor turns up all over the southwest. Then I read the article. I've seen different pieces of Spanish armor found in the SW US but nothing like that. Only idea I had was no everyday soldier would be stupid enough to wear that get up for long in West Texas. (Could explain bein found with a skeleton) I would speculate it belonged to a higher up who really spent most of his time in the shade, lookin good and ordering others around. There might have been a horse tail plume extending from the hole in the helmet? Too bad they don't have the exact location and a better description of the find. Probably not killed in a fight with Indians, as they would have taken that. Maybe the burial of a Comanche or Kiowa with items he had captured from the Spanish? Let us know if they figure this out.

Not everyday soldier would be stupid enough to wear that get up in west Texas. ( could explain being found with a skeleton) that's classic, still laughing!!!

 

[Red James Cash]

Sorry but the bat creek stone is full of more holes than Swiss cheese,

That tells me what you know but,more importantly,it tells me what you DONT know.

 

[Mark Todd]

Sorry, but there's no intelligible statement to reply to.

 

[Red James Cash]

The Dighton Rock is a 40-ton sandstone boulder bearing an inscription in Iberian-Punic as it existed around 500 BC. Iberian-Punic is a variant of the Phoenician language adopted by the natives of Spain. A word in the Numidian/Tifinag script from the Roman era also appears on the boulder, along with about 20 constellations. Sceptics dismiss the Dighton Rock as a hoax, but generations of local Indians insist that the inscriptions were on the boulder long before the Puritans arrived in 1630. Other examples of Iberian-Punic script can be found on West Virginia’s Adena Stone, the Aptuxcet Rock in Central Vermont, and the Davenport Tablet in Davenport, Iowa. Fell and other researchers have dated these inscriptions to between about 600 and 200 BC.4




You can also take a look at this post from a few years ago,post #33

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/general-discussion/369467-any-us-areas-ancient-coins-3.html

 

[Red James Cash]

Sorry, but there's no intelligible statement to reply to.

wasnt looking for one

 

[Red James Cash]

Did Beck run out and start carving the Dighton rock up?

 

[Gold Maven]

looks like old Chinese armor....the hole in the hat for the old "top knot" hair style......just a guess.

 

[Charl]

The Dighton Rock is a 40-ton sandstone boulder bearing an inscription in Iberian-Punic as it existed around 500 BC. Iberian-Punic is a variant of the Phoenician language adopted by the natives of Spain. A word in the Numidian/Tifinag script from the Roman era also appears on the boulder, along with about 20 constellations. Sceptics dismiss the Dighton Rock as a hoax, but generations of local Indians insist that the inscriptions were on the boulder long before the Puritans arrived in 1630. Other examples of Iberian-Punic script can be found on West Virginia’s Adena Stone, the Aptuxcet Rock in Central Vermont, and the Davenport Tablet in Davenport, Iowa. Fell and other researchers have dated these inscriptions to between about 600 and 200 BC.4


View attachment 1211390

You can also take a look at this post from a few years ago,post #33

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/general-discussion/369467-any-us-areas-ancient-coins-3.html

The Puritans that settled Mass. Bay did feel that Dighton Rock contained Phonecian characters. It does not. It is Native American petroglyphs and the characters are typical of such petroglyph sites scattered about the waters of Narragansertt Bay and it's' tributaries. When Dellabarre studied Dighton Rock, he believed he found an inscription and date from 16th century explorer Miguel Cortoreal. More tellingly, Dellabarre concluded all petroglyphs were post Contact because he believed no Native American attempted writing on rock before first seeing Europeans write on paper. In other words, he was very enthnocentric and biased. The same attitude of "natives could not do a thing without seeing examples from higher civilizations" led to the so-called moundbuilders myth of the 19th century: the mounds had to be the work of explorers from Old World cultures, and could not be the work of "savages". I have been a member of the New England Antiquities Research Association for 30 plus years. An organization very amenable to the search for pre Columbian explorations in the Americas. But we know full well that there are no ancient Meditteranean scripts present on Dighton Rock. That is simply not the case at all. All the petroglyphs on Dighton Rock are native in origin. With the possible notable exception of Miguel Cortoreal's name and the date 1502. There are several petroglyph panels located on the waters of our bays. All are located on salt water estuaries, including Dighton Rock. Of course they were present before the arrival of Europeans. Natives have been rendering petroglyphs in our area for thousands of years. I have recorded all the petroglyph panels known from this region. Some have been published in Ed Lenik's Picture Rocks: American Indian Rock Art in the Northeast Woodlands.(2002).

https://books.google.com/books?id=y...onepage&q=Petroglyphs in rhode island&f=false

 

[Red James Cash]

The Puritans that settled Mass. Bay did feel that Dighton Rock contained Phonecian characters. It does not. It is Native American petroglyphs and the characters are typical of such petroglyph sites scattered about the waters of Narragansertt Bay and it's' tributaries. When Dellabarre studied Dighton Rock, he believed he found an inscription and date from 16th century explorer Miguel Cortoreal. More tellingly, Dellabarre concluded all petroglyphs were post Contact because he believed no Native American attempted writing on rock before first seeing Europeans write on paper. In other words, he was very enthnocentric and biased. The same attitude of "natives could not do a thing without seeing examples from higher civilizations" led to the so-called moundbuilders myth of the 19th century: the mounds had to be the work of explorers from Old World cultures, and could not be the work of "savages". I have been a member of the New England Antiquities Research Association for 30 plus years. An organization very amenable to the search for pre Columbian explorations in the Americas. But we know full well that there are no ancient Meditteranean scripts present on Dighton Rock. That is simply not the case at all. All the petroglyphs on Dighton Rock are native in origin. With the possible notable exception of Miguel Cortoreal's name and the date 1502....

Well for one thing buddy,I never listen to socalled expertscome to find out theyre usually wrong.Why dont you tell us why roman amphoras were found off the coast of maine,plus roman oil lamps found in native american shell mounds,plus a celt bronze dagger.Wheres your proof?I can sit here all day posting proof that your association is WRONG.

 

[Charl]

Well for one thing buddy,I never listen to socalled expertscome to find out theyre usually wrong.Why dont you tell us why roman amphoras were found off the coast of maine,plus roman oil lamps found in native american shell mounds,plus a celt bronze dagger.Wheres your proof?I can sit here all day posting proof that your association is WRONG.

No, actually you can sit here all day slinging the slop. Robert Marx found amphora off Rio de Janero, which the government buried. That's certainly of interest. As far as Dighton Rock and Phonecians, you're simply parroting the enthnocentric ideas of the original settlers who could not conceive of the natives accomplishing anything on their own. There are in fact many so-called archaeological anomolies, in the form of out of place artifacts. I am neither accepting all of them uncritically, nor rejecting them all in a close minded fashion. Basically, you sound like someone who just believes everything that doesn't fit, uncritically. Many of the "proofs" you could bring up here would be found to be very suspect when looked at closer. Just not as woefully simplistic as you make it. So, buddy,,don't think you have me pegged as some kind of nay saying "expert". I have been deeply involved in the area of Pre Columbian explorations of the Americas for over 30 years. I suspect your interest is of the "lite" variety. Buddy.

No organization has been more involved with the very puzzles you pretend to know so well, then NEARA:

http://www.neara.org/index.php/interests-menu

i've been involved with these puzzles for over 30 years. Including the Bat Creek Stone and other archaeological anomolies. Buddy. And there are no Iberic inscriptions on Dighton Rock. Barry Fell's suggestion was demonstrated to be wrong quite some time ago. You need to bring yourself up to speed.....

 

[Charl]

Red James cash, here's a Narragansett Bay inscription that is not a Native American petroglyph. The Narragansett Stone. Stolen in 2012. Returned by the thief. These are the earliest photos, taken by myself in 1985. Not Phoenician. Not Native American. Norse? Icelandic? 19th century hoax? Only above water a few hours a day, prior to being stolen(despite weighing several tons, stolen right off the shore!). To be installed in a public park soon......