Stone Bowl

[tonykidd]

Unearthed this stone bowl. It had a broken stone pipe, scraper and a hammer stone/pestle in the bowl. I save the dirt to have analyzed for contents. I haven't been able to find anything resembling this anywhere on the web. Pretty cool.

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[joshuaream]

Google Molcajete

I haven't been able to find anything resembling this anywhere on the web.

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[tonykidd]

Google Molcajete

I've seen the modern stuff. I'm looking for ones that were found. Or are they just of Mexican origin?

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Pier 1 tribe?

 

[joshuaream]

I've seen the modern stuff. I'm looking for ones that were found. Or are they just of Mexican origin?

Made out of that volcanic stone, I'm pretty sure only Mexico.

 

[tonykidd]

Made out of that volcanic stone, I'm pretty sure only Mexico.

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And the other stone tools all came from Target.

 

[joshuaream]

And the other stone tools all came from Target.

Tony, I'm not saying that, but that type of volcanic rock and style are made in Mexico.

 

[tonykidd]

Tony, I'm not saying that, but that type of volcanic rock and style are made in Mexico.

I know, I was being a smart ads. Thanks for the info; that's the only thing it could be. It's made of heavy basalt, and shouldn't be anywhere near this area. We've found some real doozies here that shouldn't be. We've been finding greenstone bannerstones and then this one:

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[jmaschal]

How deep from the surface are you excavating?

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Let me get this straight. You have a site that is producing Stone Bowls from Mexico, Copper pieces made from Michigan Copper, Shell Hammers normally only found around coastal areas, priceless Banners and Birdstones, and to top it all off, modern Points made of India Agates. Has this been documented at all? Are there any reports being done about this that we can read? If this is for real then you have a once in a lifetime sites and it should be published and studied by professionals. Still curious how the modern pieces got put in with the rest.

You seem like a great guy with a great passion for artifacts, but have to admit this all a little hard to fathom.

 

[tonykidd]

Let me get this straight. You have a site that is producing Stone Bowls from Mexico, Copper pieces made from Michigan Copper, Shell Hammers normally only found around coastal areas, priceless Banners and Birdstones, and to top it all off, modern Points made of India Agates. Has this been documented at all? Are there any reports being done about this that we can read? If this is for real then you have a once in a lifetime sites and it should be published and studied by professionals. Still curious how the modern pieces got put in with the rest.

You seem like a great guy with a great passion for artifacts, but have to admit this all a little hard to fathom.

It's just as hard for us as well, believe me. We are scratching our heads. We're consulting with different archaeologists regarding the artifacts, and so far the only consensus is that this particular group was very trade-savvy. Nothing makes sense regionally, other than the points and tools. The lack of pottery establishes a very early age (late Archaic or early Woodland), but we won't know until our carbon dating report comes back on a remnant of wood that was hafted in one of the copper spearheads. It is definitely throwing some pre-conceived notions of early trade out the window. Of course, if the wood comes back as being 1000 years or less BP, then everything makes sense. Otherwise, it's very strange. It is being documented and catalogued, but the landowner is extremely restrictive and anti-government, and we will most likely lose 90% of the site before summer. I just hope there's a lot of good left in the 10%.
As far as the "modern" artifacts, they were found adjacent but not proximal to these artifacts, but among others. In the exact same spot where the large, 9.5" point was found we dug up 6 various large stone tools today. As I said, very confusing. Someone would have had to bury all of these together, so you can understand my push back.

 

[tonykidd]

How deep from the surface are you excavating?

This particular bowl was exactly 11" from the top of a shelf that was disturbed by heavy logging.
About 20' away we got a hit on the metal detector and dug up a copper snake effigy that was less than 6" from the surface. So, not very deep at all.

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[The Grim Reaper]

It's just as hard for us as well, believe me. We are scratching our heads. We're consulting with different archaeologists regarding the artifacts, and so far the only consensus is that this particular group was very trade-savvy. Nothing makes sense regionally, other than the points and tools. The lack of pottery establishes a very early age (late Archaic or early Woodland), but we won't know until our carbon dating report comes back on a remnant of wood that was hafted in one of the copper spearheads. It is definitely throwing some pre-conceived notions of early trade out the window. Of course, if the wood comes back as being 1000 years or less BP, then everything makes sense. Otherwise, it's very strange. It is being documented and catalogued, but the landowner is extremely restrictive and anti-government, and we will most likely lose 90% of the site before summer. I just hope there's a lot of good left in the 10%.
As far as the "modern" artifacts, they were found adjacent but not proximal to these artifacts, but among others. In the exact same spot where the large, 9.5" point was found we dug up 6 various large stone tools today. As I said, very confusing. Someone would have had to bury all of these together, so you can understand my push back.

Thanks for the info and please share any reports done on the site.

 

[tonykidd]

Let me get this straight. You have a site that is producing Stone Bowls from Mexico, Copper pieces made from Michigan Copper, Shell Hammers normally only found around coastal areas, priceless Banners and Birdstones, and to top it all off, modern Points made of India Agates. Has this been documented at all? Are there any reports being done about this that we can read? If this is for real then you have a once in a lifetime sites and it should be published and studied by professionals. Still curious how the modern pieces got put in with the rest.

You seem like a great guy with a great passion for artifacts, but have to admit this all a little hard to fathom.

Today when we dug up the spot where I found the 9.5" point, this is what we found in a 5' x 5' area, 12"-16" deep, and why it's so hard to believe it isn't authentic:

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[oldkoot]

It looks like a Spanish Molcajete and I may not be spelling that rite
they were used for grinding up grains and herbs I believe they used a stone tool to do the grinding

 

[tonykidd]

It looks like a Spanish Molcajete and I may not be spelling that rite
they were used for grinding up grains and herbs I believe they used a stone tool to do the grinding

We didn't find a basalt pestle, but the two stones, a scraper and a broken stone pipe. If this did in fact come from Central America through trade, I would suspect that the pestle was lost along the way.

 

[Bow Only]

This is just difficult for me to believe. Not saying you are doing anything wrong, but I've spent my lifetime studying pre-Columbian Native American cultures and what you are showing does not fit. The 9.5 inch point was hard to digest, but it could happen. The rolled copper snake effigy made me say "no, that's not right." I've also spent a lot of time studying Meso-American Archaeolgy and when you pull out an Aztec copper snake effigy with a mocajete made of basalt in Alabama, it's not something one sees...............ever. Just so I can comprehend what I'm seeing, a man from Mexico in Pre-Columbian times takes the effort to bring a mocajete all the way from Mexico to Alabama? Why? You can make those where ever you go. When are you going to start breaking out the 6 and 7 inch obsidian blades? Someone is messing with you or you are messing with us. Either way, I don't like it. Congrats on your finds. You need to get an archaeologist to document the site. He won't believe you either.

 

[tonykidd]

This is just difficult for me to believe. Not saying you are doing anything wrong, but I've spent my lifetime studying pre-Columbian Native American cultures and what you are showing does not fit. The 9.5 inch point was hard to digest, but it could happen. The rolled copper snake effigy made me say "no, that's not right." I've also spent a lot of time studying Meso-American Archaeolgy and when you pull out an Aztec copper snake effigy with a mocajete made of basalt in Alabama, it's not something one sees...............ever. Just so I can comprehend what I'm seeing, a man from Mexico in Pre-Columbian times takes the effort to bring a mocajete all the way from Mexico to Alabama? Why? You can make those where ever you go. When are you going to start breaking out the 6 and 7 inch obsidian blades? Someone is messing with you or you are messing with us. Either way, I don't like it. Congrats on your finds. You need to get an archaeologist to document the site. He won't believe you either.

First, the copper snake fits with the other copper we are finding. If you look closely in the picture below, you can see copper nuggets near the snake. Those are scattered around, and we've probably picked up 2-3 pounds in the area. 95% of our metal detector hits yield these rough pieces.
The archaeologists who have looked at our artifacts don't dispute any of this at all; in fact to the contrary. They are well aware of extensive trade throughout the southeast and from all corners of the U. S. The Lake Jackson, Florida mound copper, for example, came from the Great Lakes area, so it isn't unheard of by any stretch.
I'm not asking for anyone's blessings or affirmation; I know what we've found. I'm simply sharing.

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[PullTabSlayer]

Cool stuff, thanks for sharing. My expertise on this is 0, maybe that's why it makes sense to me that a people from central America or Mexico very well could have loaded a boat full of supplies and set off for the great unknown and found themselves In Alabama or North Florida. Its what humans have done forever, Explore.
Maybe a collector lived close by 100 years ago, he dies, family thinks this is all junk, loads it all up and dumps it in the woods. No one will ever really know.

 

[tonykidd]

Cool stuff, thanks for sharing. My expertise on this is 0, maybe that's why it makes sense to me that a people from central America or Mexico very well could have loaded a boat full of supplies and set off for the great unknown and found themselves In Alabama or North Florida. Its what humans have done forever, Explore.

There has always been an apparent influence and relationship between nearly identical artifacts in the southeast and Central America, so it isn't much of a stretch to link them. This wasn't a complete molcajete; the pestle was missing and replaced with a smooth rock. This wasn't a "lost" item, but rather some sort of a cache. Fun stuff!