A Strange Artifact Give Me your Opinion !!!!!!

[monsterrack]

I got this photo in an e-mail from a friend that would not lie about any of the facts. This persons grandparents were getting their garden ready and rolled this pottery finger ring out. It's looks to be a Veracruz style item and was found in Harrisonburg La. along the Black river. This area is a high multi occupation area, but to my knowledge nothing like this has been found in any dig in the area. I have tried to look up junk stuff from Mexico but have had no luck on anything near this. The mounds in this area are well known for their pyramid look, large dirt cones built on top of them.

 

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[quito]

WOW!! That is really quite a piece, wish I could help you out. Amazing the color still on it too.

 

[jamey]

not that would be cool

 

[NCPeaches]

That's an amazing piece and what a mystery it is! Hope one of us knows something about it! Really peaks my curiosity that's for sure!

 

[tnmudman]

that is amazing can you imagine pulling that out of the dirt!

 

[old digger]

That sure is a most interesting and unique find. It may be a trade item or the artistic aspect was integrated into that region.

 

[releventchair]

Could the red be baked on ochre?
A death culture was part of the later mound culture in Mississippi ( if the recovery site in La. relates to mound culture.)
Ring looks South American to my inexperience .
If from such a culture , perhaps other known relics from the mound cultures ( Mississippian)could give hints? They did work amazing clay items. Males wore ear " plugs" in there ear lobes ,woman were not shown wearing them.

Quite a recovery..a wowzer for sure.

 

[joshuaream]

I'd love to see more pictures of it. How thick and long is it?

Style wise I think you are close with Veracruz. Personally, I'd suggest the face is more of the Teotihuacan style. Veracruz heads usually have almond shaped eyes and a more expressive mouth (smiles, smirks, tongues, lips, etc.) Teotihuacan faces are are usually dead or expressionless (strait-line hollow eyes & empty open mouth.)

What is it?...
I haven't seen any ancient pottery rings from Mexico (or from the US.) Tempered pottery wouldn't be a great material for a ring. I have seen lots of pottery earspools but those typically have some ridges or thickness that support the structure, and still would be subjected to a lot less pressure and force than a finger ring. Metal and obsidian rings from Mexico are rare, but they do exist. From burial contexts, they were probably worn higher on the finger than we typically think of. (Not on the first finger bone, but in the middle or tip of the finger.) I've also seen a lot of flutes and whistles from Teotihuacan that have a face decoration like that, might be a repaired end to a flute but then it would have some repair marks.

My best guess is that it's a tourist piece. In the 50's, 60's and 70's there was a lot of interest in jewelry that combines old and new (both fashionable Mexican women and international tourists.) Google Taxco Jade and you can see some of the silver works done initially with old pieces of jade, and then later with onyx copies of old pieces. I've seen the same done with pottery faces for necklaces and pins. It's not the Taxco style with silver, but given that people were interested in them someone might have made rings and things like that. It might be built around a metal ring and then covered with something, if you have a metal detector see if it beeps.

How it got there?...
Outside of some copper bells and trade items found in Arizona or New Mexico and the occasional obsidian arrowhead found in Texas, there isn't much evidence for relics coming up from Central or Southern Mexico. The best example is an obsidian flake that was found in the fill of Spiro mound that was traced to the Teotihuacan area. It might have made it up over generations of trade or it might have been a rare example of direct contact. It wasn't found with any of the burials, but was still found in one of the largest ceremonial sites in the US.

If it came from a big site, then maybe your friends have found a rare piece. An x-ray to see the structure and then a TL test would pretty clearly suggest how old it is. (The x-ray wouldn't give an age, but it's often done to see if pottery items are repaired or bonded together in non ancient ways.)

If it was just an isolated find without evidence of a pretty significant burial or deposit, unfortunately the best and least satisfying scenario that I see is a tourist item that someone lost. A buddy of mine found a relatively rare Nazi officer's pin while metal detecting a school playground. It had been there for a while, and a logical explanation is that some kid took dad or grandpas war souvenir to school and it fell out of his pocket. I don't think Nazis penetrated that far into a poor farming community in Indiana during the war.

The Poverty Point culture was the big trading force in that part of Louisiana, they were dead 800 to 1000 years before this style of artifact was happening in Mexico. I think you had Marksville Hopewell during the Woodland and Baytown Mississippian culture in that area, I don't think they were known as big trading entities (they probably exported items, but aren't know for drawing importing artifacts into their area.) If they did trade with Mexico, I think Obsidan, jade and feathers would have been the likely commodities.

 

[monsterrack]

When I get my hands on it I will test it with a metal detector. You have thought of the same thing I have about a souvenir given to a kid maybe and then lost in these folks back yard. I have never heard of any ring type other than metal and stone, but I thought if anyone would know Joshua would. When I get it I'll take more photos and size it ,if it passes the detector test.

 

[unclemac]

i send those inquires off to the museum in Mexico City...they have helped me before, that piece is too much for us, being all out of context and such.

 

[monsterrack]

i send those inquires off to the museum in Mexico City...they have helped me before, that piece is too much for us, being all out of context and such.

unclemac do you have the e-mail for that contact ?

 

[HenryWaltonJonesJr]

The image seems to have been taken with an iPhone 7 that has portrait mode that blurs out the edges. Would be interested to see more photos and taken without the artistic style!

 

[ValleyoftheSerpentKings]

I believe the item is absolutely authentic. The styling of the young noble depicted is beyond the knowledge of the common treasure hunter and beyond the scope of impoverished natives doing reproductions for tourists.. Note the wig. It is a type that has been found in mounds throughout the southeast area. I'm aware there are quite a few mounds in Louisiana as they are all along waterways up and down the Gulf and Ohio and Mississippi Rivers among others. I saw one a long time ago and on tv and I was immediately reminded of Billy Gibbons from ZZ Top.. I'm remembering something being said about it being the head gear of a priest. I'm pretty sure it was in the South as well I'm thinking Georgia or Florida. I tried to search for a picture online but of course there was nothing. I advise who ever is in possession of the piece to put it in a saftey deposit box and definitely do not hand it over to an academic or University or museum. They've hidden enough away. This is obviously something very special and might have it's story revealed as we become more aware in the future years. By the way I've been waiting to find a post where I could actually contribute and I must say thank you for sharing this amazing find! It really is beautiful.

 

[ToddsPoint]

I believe the item is absolutely authentic. The styling of the young noble depicted is beyond the knowledge of the common treasure hunter and beyond the scope of impoverished natives doing reproductions for tourists.. Note the wig. It is a type that has been found in mounds throughout the southeast area. I'm aware there are quite a few mounds in Louisiana as they are all along waterways up and down the Gulf and Ohio and Mississippi Rivers among others. I saw one a long time ago and on tv and I was immediately reminded of Billy Gibbons from ZZ Top.. I'm remembering something being said about it being the head gear of a priest. I'm pretty sure it was in the South as well I'm thinking Georgia or Florida. I tried to search for a picture online but of course there was nothing. I advise who ever is in possession of the piece to put it in a saftey deposit box and definitely do not hand it over to an academic or University or museum. They've hidden enough away. This is obviously something very special and might have it's story revealed as we become more aware in the future years. By the way I've been waiting to find a post where I could actually contribute and I must say thank you for sharing this amazing find! It really is beautiful.

Billy Gibbons? Yes, it would seem he is an expert on headgear. Gary

 

[Charl]

Billy Gibbons? Yes, it would seem he is an expert on headgear. Gary


View attachment 1613040

Cause every girl crazy 'bout a sharp dressed man

 

[unclemac]

actually some, impoverished natives doing reproductions for tourists, know exactly what they are doing and exactly what they are doing and even incorporate age specific materials in their pieces to fool dating techniques. the idea that folk less "educated" than the rest of us are in some way incapable is just plain wrong.

http://resources.conservation-us.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2015/02/osg014-09.pdf



having said that I still find this piece interesting...any late news on it?

 

[monsterrack]

actually some, impoverished natives doing reproductions for tourists, know exactly what they are doing and exactly what they are doing and even incorporate age specific materials in their pieces to fool dating techniques. the idea that folk less "educated" than the rest of us are in some way incapable is just plain wrong.

http://resources.conservation-us.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2015/02/osg014-09.pdf



having said that I still find this piece interesting...any late news on it?

Unclemac I got my hands on it a few months back and ran my pin point metal detector over and did not get any vibration from the pin pointer, so it has no metal in it like new reproduction do. I didn't have long there that day, but it is fine to hold in your hand and I could not see anything that just jumped out and said reproduction. On the other hand the odds are against it being real in my mind, but I could be wrong stranger things have happened.

On the matter of poor folks making reproduction that can fool someone, they do it all the time. The Chinese are pumping out Huan Danasty pottery items with calcium and other minerals all over them and it done by some impoverished folks. They wont fool an expert, but someone just wanting to buy one an not knowing what to look for with the right tools, yes it happens all the time to folks. Know what you want to collect if you are going to buy and have a very good dealer to buy from that will stand behind their items.

 

[Trezurehunter]

Wouldn't want to give an opinion, but I will say its a very nice looking piece.