Do you guys think e-bay artifacts will destroy collections?

[Tnmountains]

Question: Do you all think that Ebay and similar places that sell artifacts will destroy legitimate collections? I was buying some parts for my 4 -wheeler and could not help but look and see what was being sold. I saw one guy selling Paleo style artifacts and they looked perfect. At the end of the listing the seller said they had no idea where it came from or if it was Paleo. People were bidding like crazy on these items. As a hunter in a decent area I know how rare it is to find a Clovis, Beaver Lake or Cumberland. Go to E-Bay and there are many. One guy said great patina and it was a Hornstone Beaver Lake or something and I did not see patina.
So if these points are being added to ones collection to round it out so to speak and one day the collection gets sold the first thing a buyer does is look for suspect pieces and it can ruin the whole collection if not documented as a bought item with a pedigree. I cannot imagine having a collection of Paleo and not knowing who found it, when and the county at least.
I will try to find the links and let you all see what you think and opinions on this subject are welcome. If you see a link of to good to be true post it up for debate.
I have bought off e-bay artifacts and there is nothing wrong with it I just keep them separate and marked as an e-bay find.
TnMtns.

 

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[BearCreek]

Good point! "Authentic" needs some clarification... I have made a couple of points myself, just for fun to see if I could. They were made from authentic obsidian flakes I've found. I could list them as Authentic Obsidian Arrowheads. Tricky, but technically correct and ethically WRONG.

Exactly!

 

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[quito]

Good point! "Authentic" needs some clarification... I have made a couple of points myself, just for fun to see if I could. They were made from authentic obsidian flakes I've found. I could list them as Authentic Obsidian Arrowheads. Tricky, but technically correct and ethically WRONG.

you couldn't accurately list them in Native American- pre-1600 where I and many others buy artifacts.

So, remember people, there is more than one category on e-bay where you can find this stuff.

 

[newnan man]

There are a few seller on eBay who consistently sell high end very rare perfect artifacts. Almost all with 1 or 2 COA's. They start them at low prices and low or no reserve. Come on, too good to be true. I personally wouldn't go near them. How does someone constantly get rare high end artifacts cheap enough to sell them for a fraction of their real value if "authentic" ? Hey, buyer beware.

 

[crj1968]

you couldn't accurately list them in Native American- pre-1600 where I and many others buy artifacts.

So, remember people, there is more than one category on e-bay where you can find this stuff.

Agreed. But an unethical person could and I am sure they do. It's like anything, you better know your stuff...

 

[Tnmountains]

There are a few seller on eBay who consistently sell high end very rare perfect artifacts. Almost all with 1 or 2 COA's. They start them at low prices and low or no reserve. Come on, too good to be true. I personally wouldn't go near them. How does someone constantly get rare high end artifacts cheap enough to sell them for a fraction of their real value if "authentic" ? Hey, buyer beware.

I think there are a lot of people getting ripped off on E-Bay. The sellers have a good rating because who wants to admit or can tell they have been ripped off. The sellers know they are ripping people off and probably know the maker and request scottsbluff,clovis, Dalton, eden and so forth as needed. There is always a new member going and selling some of their collection off. I am sure it happens but it sure happens a lot with perfect points.
Talk about razor sharp perfect tips after 12,000 years its a miracle! Lol
This is selling right now. I have never seen a more perfectly flaked with that little tip still intact and that perfect eye candy red splash on the end. If real it is out of a grave. Only $400.00 so act soon.

 

[unclemac]

how many G-10's have you ever found? my points are pretty much all "field grade" (priceless to me)...the only points i would trust on ebay would be field grade points made out of materials and a style I am familiar with. but i do enjoy looking at ebay for the ridiculous "artifacts" that are clearly just rocks, a lot of garbage out there.

 

[quito]

Theres a ( Native American Indian Artifact Stone ax Tomahawk ) on right now a 20 dollar bid has been posted ( its a dang rock ) the seller has a 100% whatever they call it. i just cant figure it out.

It's Simple.

Some shady sellers have friends put bids on items.

 

[unclemac]

the value of the looting also decreases with every $15 "rare" Neolithic arrowhead that's sold on eBay. As fakes have flooded the market — and Stanish estimates that, at times, 95 percent of the antiquities for sale on eBay are phony - the value of real artifacts also plunges because of the increased likelihood that more and more are replicas.

https://psmag.com/economics/indiana-jones-and-the-temple-of-ebay-3622#.uo5a4uhhg

 

[Tnmountains]

Ohio double headed bird stone with a fresh COA 8-17-17 just few days ago.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Great-Effig...780790?hash=item3aeea345b6:g:q9kAAOSwgGdZngbX

 

[Tnmountains]

the value of the looting also decreases with every $15 "rare" Neolithic arrowhead that's sold on eBay. As fakes have flooded the market — and Stanish estimates that, at times, 95 percent of the antiquities for sale on eBay are phony - the value of real artifacts also plunges because of the increased likelihood that more and more are replicas.

https://psmag.com/economics/indiana-jones-and-the-temple-of-ebay-3622#.uo5a4uhhg

Excellent article a must read. Thanks for sharing that.

 

[Old Pueblo]

Hello. Ive only bought NA artifacts on ebay twice and one time I just wanted the display case the artifacts came in. I would suggest not buying Native American artifacts from ebay, only because it can encourage others to go out and loot sites just so they can sell the stuff online. And if people are going out finding this stuff just so you can sell it, they have no business finding it in the first place.

 

[T.C.]

Hello. Ive only bought NA artifacts on ebay twice and one time I just wanted the display case the artifacts came in. I would suggest not buying Native American artifacts from ebay, only because it can encourage others to go out and loot sites just so they can sell the stuff online. And if people are going out finding this stuff just so you can sell it, they have no business finding it in the first place.

Not all artifacts on ebay are from "market hunters." A lot of old collections have been and are going to come up for sale. Don't lump everyone into one bunch....

An old huntin' partner of Carroll Howe's, passed away here a couple of years ago. If you don't know who Carroll Howe is, you haven't been huntin' long. His partner's (whom I will not name), entire collection went to his kids and grandkids. It is as of this year, being parted out and sold on ebay.

 

[Charl]

View attachment 1486749


Ohio double headed bird stone with a fresh COA 8-17-17 just few days ago.

Great Effigy Pipe Birdstone double headed Rare Museum COA Indian artifacts | eBay

Oddly enough, the listing is in pre-1600 AD artifacts, and the COA says "100% certain it was made between 1900-1930".

 

[diggummup]

Theres a ( Native American Indian Artifact Stone ax Tomahawk ) on right now a 20 dollar bid has been posted ( its a dang rock ) the seller has a 100% whatever they call it. i just cant figure it out.

You mean this guy lol... Native American Indian Artifact Stone Axe Tomahawk Lot #16 - Edgecombe County NC | eBay

 

[monsterrack]

Buying off of e-bay is a buyer beware market. You need to know what you are buying and always pay with pay-pal, that way you have 190 days to get your money back. On the other hand pay-pal takes to strong of action on the customers side, just say I buy a point from a seller and don't return it in good shape they will still give me my money back and take it out of the sellers account. Take my word for it there are some full time artifakers out there and that is how they make their money to live, so they do a dang good job. A job done so well that no one can tell for sure if it's real or fake and I don't care who looks at it. The trick is to read and study, read and study, read and study and then buy you some good optics like a good microscope. Then look at artifacts that you have found and compare. Read up on chemistry and how to counteract certain chemicals , what UV from the sun will do to some stone.

Then you may have a 50% chance to spot a fake. Then it will take years of looking at fakes and collecting to hone in to what you want to see in a real artifact. A G10 artifact for under $200 will raise a red flag to me, it may be real but it makes my radar start looking around. Like the old saying if it seems to good to be true then most of the time it is not true. Fakes have been around since man first starting pay money for anything of value. JMO a COA is another mans opinion, all though there are some real good ones out there. If I can't trust my own gut then I will pass on the deal.

I am a fare to good knapper and that is what has helped me spot a lot of fakes. Most knappers take a lot of pride in how perfect they can make a point, the point that was posted in the first post with all the fine flaking in JMO is a fake. The flake scars look to have been done using a Ishi stick and it looks from the photo to have been ground down to shape then flaked. Warning the fakers of today have learned to stress a point so it does not look so perfect. A true artifaker will make 50 field grade points and sell them and make more money than making a $300 G10.

 

[Tnmountains]

MonsterRack I was hoping you would chime in with your knowledge. I have seen your skills and they are very good. The more I look on e-bay the more I see that I think is not real but selling for $300.00 plus/ Hate seeing people get ripped off. Did you read the article about the guy who made pottery out of midens? It would past every test known to man. The double headed birdstone from Ohio the guy has many listing made from banded slate that all look questionable.
I know the rules on here say we have to not argue when someone post something we think is not real unless they bring it up themselves.
Hey man hope you are feeling well and are having success in your battle?

 

[Tnmountains]

I like this guys listings. If he does not have any good documentation on the item he list it as modern. He also has items with good documentaion.
Dovetail Arrowhead - Ohio Flintridge - Button Base Dovetail | eBay

 

[T.C.]

Buying off of e-bay is a buyer beware market. You need to know what you are buying and always pay with pay-pal, that way you have 190 days to get your money back. On the other hand pay-pal takes to strong of action on the customers side, just say I buy a point from a seller and don't return it in good shape they will still give me my money back and take it out of the sellers account. Take my word for it there are some full time artifakers out there and that is how they make their money to live, so they do a dang good job. A job done so well that no one can tell for sure if it's real or fake and I don't care who looks at it. The trick is to read and study, read and study, read and study and then buy you some good optics like a good microscope. Then look at artifacts that you have found and compare. Read up on chemistry and how to counteract certain chemicals , what UV from the sun will do to some stone.

Then you may have a 50% chance to spot a fake. Then it will take years of looking at fakes and collecting to hone in to what you want to see in a real artifact. A G10 artifact for under $200 will raise a red flag to me, it may be real but it makes my radar start looking around. Like the old saying if it seems to good to be true then most of the time it is not true. Fakes have been around since man first starting pay money for anything of value. JMO a COA is another mans opinion, all though there are some real good ones out there. If I can't trust my own gut then I will pass on the deal.

I am a fare to good knapper and that is what has helped me spot a lot of fakes. Most knappers take a lot of pride in how perfect they can make a point, the point that was posted in the first post with all the fine flaking in JMO is a fake. The flake scars look to have been done using a Ishi stick and it looks from the photo to have been ground down to shape then flaked. Warning the fakers of today have learned to stress a point so it does not look so perfect. A true artifaker will make 50 field grade points and sell them and make more money than making a $300 G10.

Very well put. Also, some of the so-called experts can be fooled sometimes.

 

[joshuaream]

I think eBay has made it much harder to buy and sell, but well documented, pictured relics are probably better because of eBay.

If you want to chase relics now a days, build a good library and look for provenance and proof that it was owned before the modern scourge of fakes happened. (Yes, lots of fakes were made going back to the early 1900's, but they usually are much easier to identify.)

 

[T.C.]

I think eBay has made it much harder to buy and sell, but well documented, pictured relics are probably better because of eBay.

If you want to chase relics now a days, build a good library and look for provenance and proof that it was owned before the modern scourge of fakes happened. (Yes, lots of fakes were made going back to the early 1900's, but they usually are much easier to identify.)

Northwest Art and Collectibles has gotten out of the artifact buying and selling business altogether because of an item he was selling. If any of you didn't follow it, he was very disgusted with what transpired. He wrote an explanatory piece with the items he was selling on ebay. Long story short: The items he was selling were papered by a well
known and respected authenticator. The items he was selling was called out by another authenticator, as fake. He went on to sell them on ebay with a certificate of authenticity and the heated debate that surrounded it.... interesting.