Show me the Clovis!

[SportsmanAll]

Always been really interested in the Clovis points. If you have been lucky enough to find some Let’s see them!!

 

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[The Grim Reaper]

Here are the only two complete ones I have personally found.

I fixed the pictures. Not sure why they loaded like that.

Heres some info on these. I was home for lunch when I posted then and was out of time.

The smaller one I found near Haverhill Ohio in Scioto county Ohio. It is ground very nice on one side and the other side is damaged. It's only fluted on one side and is pretty much exhausted.

The bigger one I found on the Bonzo farm in Lawrence county Ohio. I had never hunted this particular field and because of backwater blocking my way to the Hopewell Village I was trying to get to I went and walked this field and found this Clovis and one other point. I hunted if several times after that and never found another point, just a few pieces of Flint. This is fluted on both sides and heavily ground on both sides. It's made from a variety of Coshocton Flint. I had a great in situ of it but lost it in a computer crash.

 

[rock]

Wish I had one to show but I dont

 

[arrow86]

Grim nice one , did you post a second ? I only saw the one.
I haven’t been lucky enough to find one I’d say it’s probably the top item on my bucket list and in my opinion the prettiest type of point made.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Grim nice one , did you post a second ? I only saw the one.
I haven’t been lucky enough to find one I’d say it’s probably the top item on my bucket list and in my opinion the prettiest type of point made.

I see 5 pictures in my post of two different Clovis Points. What do you see?

 

[arrow86]

I see 5 pictures in my post of two different Clovis Points. What do you see?

All 5 of them are showing now , nice finds

 

[joshuaream]

I've been lucky enough to find a lot of Clovis tools, broken points, bifaces, flakes, etc. I found one nice Clovis point in Indiana when I was a kid, and like a dope, I sold it when I was a kid. Proving to be harder to find it a second time to buy it back.

Here are a couple of well known archaeologists looking at a frame of my Clovis material. (Southern most and Eastern most Clovis site in the world.)

 

[arrow86]

I've been lucky enough to find a lot of Clovis tools, broken points, bifaces, flakes, etc. I found one nice Clovis point in Indiana when I was a kid, and like a dope, I sold it when I was a kid. Proving to be harder to find it a second time to buy it back.

Here are a couple of well known archaeologists looking at a frame of my Clovis material. (Southern most and Eastern most Clovis site in the world.)

View attachment 1577600

Have you ever Hunted or found any around smith island in the Chesapeake Bay or the surrounding islands ?

 

[ToddsPoint]

You want real ones or reproductions? I'll show you one of each.

This shorty Clovis was found by me in '88. He got his money's worth from this one. It's totally exhausted. Haven't found another whole one since. This point was found on a late archaic site and was probably found by archaic Indians somewhere and brought back to their camp. No other paleo anything on the site. I'd guess the material is KY flint, possibly Sonora.



Here's a killer repro Clovis. Material is Holland flint from Dubois Co. IN. Reproductions are great learning tools, especially when you learn to make them yourself. Gary

 

[ptsofnc]

I've been lucky enough to find a lot of Clovis tools, broken points, bifaces, flakes, etc. I found one nice Clovis point in Indiana when I was a kid, and like a dope, I sold it when I was a kid. Proving to be harder to find it a second time to buy it back.

Here are a couple of well known archaeologists looking at a frame of my Clovis material. (Southern most and Eastern most Clovis site in the world.)

View attachment 1577600

Joshuaream... A lot of what you show in your frame looks like quickly made expedient tools. Were they determined to be of clovis origin by your finding them IN ASSOCIATION WITH clearly clovis points and tools??" Just curious. Thanks for posting.

 

[joshuaream]

Joshuaream... A lot of what you show in your frame looks like quickly made expedient tools. Were they determined to be of clovis origin by your finding them IN ASSOCIATION WITH clearly clovis points and tools??" Just curious. Thanks for posting.

That picture isn’t the best at showing the tools, it was about who was in the picture. The site has been written up and referenced several times. Thousands of tools, hundreds of biface fragments, dozens and dozens of broken points, overshots, cores, bladelets, core tabs, platters, channel flakes, etc.

Here are a couple of broken points.





Point broken before fluting, fluting nipple visible.


Overshot/Outrepasse flake tool.

 

[joshuaream]

Have you ever Hunted or found any around smith island in the Chesapeake Bay or the surrounding islands ?

No, but I got to see some of the really great pieces that Dennis Stanford has documented from there. Amazing snapshot of history captured by a couple of very observant collectors.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

This is my Paleo assemblage from my general area. All of the Tools and two of the Points came from the same site which has produced 5 Clovis Points that I know of. The others are from surrounding areas in Scioto and Lawrence counties Ohio.

 

[ptsofnc]

That picture isn’t the best at showing the tools, it was about who was in the picture. The site has been written up and referenced several times. Thousands of tools, hundreds of biface fragments, dozens and dozens of broken points, overshots, cores, bladelets, core tabs, platters, channel flakes, etc.

Here are a couple of broken points.

View attachment 1578162

View attachment 1578163

Point broken before fluting, fluting nipple visible.
View attachment 1578164

Overshot/Outrepasse flake tool.
View attachment 1578165

Yes. I recognize Dennis Stanford in the pictures, have read some of his books, and watched his presentations. But my question is did they conclude that the some of the tools were clovis (not archaic or later) simply because they were found in association with the clovis points? Is there something specific about the flaking, shape, material, etc that led the archeologists to call them clovis tools even if they didn't find any clovis points?

 

[ToddsPoint]

If you find a site with Clovis material on the surface but no material from a later culture, then it's probably a pure Clovis site and you can assume all the tools are paleo. Or, you dig a site that is well stratified and reach a level that is paleo you can assume everything from that strata is paleo. Gary

 

[The Grim Reaper]

I'm pretty sure the site Josuha is referring to is in South America.

 

[Charl]

I'm pretty sure the site Josuha is referring to is in South America.

I think Venezuela. And the other person in Joshua's photo is Bruce Bradley. So the two authors of Across Atlantic Ice, and leading proponents of the Solutrean hypothesis.

 

[joshuaream]

Yep, the very northern most point of South America. It's not new, but still "new-ish" is the idea of Clovis around the Caribbean/Gulf of Mexico basin. Basically Florida, Texas Coast, Yucatan, Costa Rica, Panama, & Venezuela have similar Clovis sites, and given a better understanding of sea levels, there was a lot of open savannah land out on the continental shelf and a density of megafauna that would have likely attracted early Americans.

This site, and the points pictured have been documented and referenced numerous times in journals and publications. Some of the items are with Mike Waters, Stanford and Bradley have casts of many of the artifacts.

The picture was just to show some artifacts and archaeologists, not divert the thread. I know there are other members here who can post up their clovis points.

 

[joshuaream]

Yes. I recognize Dennis Stanford in the pictures, have read some of his books, and watched his presentations. But my question is did they conclude that the some of the tools were clovis (not archaic or later) simply because they were found in association with the clovis points? Is there something specific about the flaking, shape, material, etc that led the archeologists to call them clovis tools even if they didn't find any clovis points?

On this particular site, aside from one long bladelet that Bradley said wasn't Clovis technology, everything else fits a very specific pattern of a Clovis quarry site. The site is on the side of a hill in the desert, and I believe that it's all related to the same group of people who visited the area to quarry stone and replenish tools. Lots of broken bifaces, fluting failures, heavily used and discarded tools, overshot flakes, core set ups, etc.

To answer your bigger question, yes there are a lot of archaeologists comfortable identifying Clovis workmanship without seeing a finished point. The way they made and maintained cores is very unique. Their use of overshots isn't unique, but the size and frequency of controlled overshots is rather unique. The way they set up platforms and some of their flake mechanics can be diagnostic when combined with other traits.

 

[ToddsPoint]

I think the Solutrian theory is bogus and I'll tell you why. The Solutrians had the bow and arrow. The got it from N. Africa. If they had the bow and arrow, why didn't they bring it with them to the new world? Gary