EVER seen ANYTHING like this before?

[BloodMoon]

Wasn’t even looking. Stone was solidly embedded in ground and I kicked it several times until it flipped over. It was covered in hardened dirt. I thought I saw something on it so I cleaned it off and wow, wasn’t expecting this. It was next to my home in a gated community just over the
Wall where there is a canal. Arizona.

THEN, I broke a dirt clod next to it snd this popped out!


Anyone seen anything like this stone before?

 

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[Rege-PA]

Both lizards appear to be from same stencil.

 

[arrow86]

Hmmm .... I’d say planted there by someone either that or your just messing with people , do you mind posting the arrowhead in same pic as lizard rock

 

[joshuaream]

Unless the point is 1 inch long or so, it likely originated a 1000+ miles to the east in the Midwest. It looks like the well used leftovers of an early Archaic Dovetail made from material found in Kentucky or Tennessee.

Horntoad petroglyphs aren’t uncommon, but the color is odd. Also odd to find an old one on a loose rock, but quite common for modern art pieces to be painted on portable rocks. The flower bed at my old house has some similar items.

 

[ToddsPoint]

That point could pass for an IL dovetail, material and all. Gary

 

[BloodMoon]

Definitely not messing with people. What I haven’t posted yet is everything else I found over months and many hours searching and digging in that area. I’ll see if I can find a pic of both together along with other finds that lead me to believe this stone is of ancient origin...because of context it was found in.

 

[BloodMoon]

I found it in Chandler, Arizona. Odd.

 

[BloodMoon]

Here are pictures that both show them on the same display table in my RV garage as well as a pic with both in the same picture, but different bins. All these finds were in this same vicinity!




You’ll obviously have to zoom in, but this is only a fraction of what I’ve found there.

Hmmm .... I’d say planted there by someone either that or your just messing with people , do you mind posting the arrowhead in same pic as lizard rock

 

[Charl]

Well, Chandler would be within the Hohokam culture area. Now, certain phases of Hohokam pottery were known for repeated painted renditions of animals, birds, humans, covering the outer portion of the pottery vessel. Here is one such example of a repeated human figure commonly found on Hohokam pottery:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bclee/3361944444

One notices that the figures are all the same, but, since they are hand painted, they are not each identical to the other. Your piece is of course stone.

Now, someone pointed out it looks like they were made from the same stencil. However, looking at the gap between the lower left leg of the lower horned toad, and the body of that toad, that gap seems a little wider then the gap between the lower left leg of the upper toad, and its body, suggesting to me that there is at least that slight difference between the two, and therefore not made from the same stencil. I could be mistaken, it's a judgement call, but actual measurements could be made to confirm or not.

So, repeated figures are common on Hohokam pottery. It might suggest Hohokam for your rock. Certainly, painted designs will survive in your arid climate, on rock, as well as on pottery. What is truly odd, at least in my experience, is the green color. I have never seen that color pigment on their pottery before, but I'm no authority. So, perhaps someone with greater knowledge of Hohokam culture and artifacts could help you here.

And we certainly cannot rule out Joshuaream's suggestion that the stone fragment could be modern in origin....

 

[arrow86]

You should have lead with the table full of points and drills

 

[joshuaream]

Charl picked up on the green color as well, that’s an odd one. It’s really hard to do on pottery where it is baked on, but I couldn’t find any ancient examples on rock art where it is likely not heated beyond what the sun can do on a hot day. You can look at hundreds or thousands of pictures of painted Arizona rock art, and not see anything that green (aside from leaves/plants and shrubs that happen to be growing nearby.)

I don’t doubt you found it, my apologies if it came across that way.

 

[sandchip]

Now, someone pointed out it looks like they were made from the same stencil. However, looking at the gap between the lower left leg of the lower horned toad, and the body of that toad, that gap seems a little wider then the gap between the lower left leg of the upper toad, and its body, suggesting to me that there is at least that slight difference between the two, and therefore not made from the same stencil. I could be mistaken, it's a judgement call, but actual measurements could be made to confirm or not...

Also seeing differences in the body between the back legs and tail as well.

 

[BloodMoon]

The picture does make them look green, but they’re actually turquoise. Ill try and post one that shows their true color. Thank you for your insight. Lots of great information. I would lean much more toward it being more modern if it wasn’t for all the context surrounding it. I took about a 10% sampling of what I found to the head archeologist at the Heard museum here and her jaw hit the ground. She said everything appeared legit, some of the arrowheads dating back 5-7 thousand years ago. Many of the pieces are native to different regions other than where I found them. She thought maybe it was some type of trading post or something.

 

[BloodMoon]

Awesome post and very observant. You are correct about the differences in measurement. If it’s of ancient origin it definitely is Hohokum. Certainly could be modern. I go back and forth. Thanks much!

 

[unclemac]

it should be pretty easy to identify the paint or whatever it was that made the color. that would tell you a lot and is the first thing to do.

 

[lairmo]

Can we get closeups of the TUBS?....

 

[BloodMoon]

Close ups

Here are some close ups.

 

[BloodMoon]

It’s not letting me attach more images for some reason.

 

[joshuaream]

Hi Bloodmoon, cool of you to circle back on this post.

More than a couple of points in that bin look a lot like points from the Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee area.

How big of an area did all this come from? Spread over acres, or concentrated into to smaller area?

They obviously didn't, but everything you have posted in the bin could have come from one of the flower beds at a house I used to own in Louisville Kentucky. (Pot shards, crystals, paint rocks, polished rocks, broken points, some South American relics, shells from the beach, antlers, etc. In a hundred years if it's found it could confuse someone if somehow it were taken out of context.)

 

[uniface]

There are three points in that picture I would be overjoyed to find. Points are mid-central (Ohio/Ky/Ind).

Pottery's pretty obviously from the southwest though.